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	<title>Comments on: Denominations Don&#8217;t Fulfill the Great Commission &#8211; The Christian Index Confesses</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: Greg Alford</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Alford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been saying this for the last three years… There is only one thing that will ever get the attention of the SBC Leadership, (regardless of who that Leadership currently includes) and that is for a Grassroots movement of the Churches of the SBC to stop sending a blank check to the CP.  

But sadly, many in the SBC think that anyone who does not send money to the CP is either sinful, or worse a liberal, or perhaps even both.  We stopped giving to the CP over three years ago, and it is actually a very liberating thing to be set free from the bondage of that man made Denominational tithe/tax on the local church.   

Grace Always,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been saying this for the last three years… There is only one thing that will ever get the attention of the SBC Leadership, (regardless of who that Leadership currently includes) and that is for a Grassroots movement of the Churches of the SBC to stop sending a blank check to the CP.  </p>
<p>But sadly, many in the SBC think that anyone who does not send money to the CP is either sinful, or worse a liberal, or perhaps even both.  We stopped giving to the CP over three years ago, and it is actually a very liberating thing to be set free from the bondage of that man made Denominational tithe/tax on the local church.   </p>
<p>Grace Always,</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just had a crazy idea...If fulfilling the Great Commission and sending missionaries was truly the most important thing to the SBC then we would fully fund the IMB.  Period.

What if the CP was changed so that all money first went to the national level SBC.  The IMB could get first dibs on the money and always have as much as they needed after that the funds could be split among the state conventions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just had a crazy idea&#8230;If fulfilling the Great Commission and sending missionaries was truly the most important thing to the SBC then we would fully fund the IMB.  Period.</p>
<p>What if the CP was changed so that all money first went to the national level SBC.  The IMB could get first dibs on the money and always have as much as they needed after that the funds could be split among the state conventions.</p>
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		<title>By: willowhill</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40548</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[willowhill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t have a problem with how the Baptist General Convention of OK spends the money it takes in.  They are very upfront about it. 
Several million a year goes to Oklahoma Baptist University, which has helped train many current as well as past SBC missionaries.
OK maintains children&#039;s homes, retirement centers, crisis pregnancy centers, disaster relief units, church planting efforts, Falls Creek, and many, many more things.

Individuals and organizations need to be continually prayerful and analytical in how money is given and spent.  But I see a lot of broad accusations lately, in a lot of places, about greedy state conventions.  And I just do not agree.
If truly-called missionaries are not being sent, make people aware of it.  But to pit it against greedy children&#039;s homes, and greedy OBU is something I am not getting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with how the Baptist General Convention of OK spends the money it takes in.  They are very upfront about it.<br />
Several million a year goes to Oklahoma Baptist University, which has helped train many current as well as past SBC missionaries.<br />
OK maintains children&#8217;s homes, retirement centers, crisis pregnancy centers, disaster relief units, church planting efforts, Falls Creek, and many, many more things.</p>
<p>Individuals and organizations need to be continually prayerful and analytical in how money is given and spent.  But I see a lot of broad accusations lately, in a lot of places, about greedy state conventions.  And I just do not agree.<br />
If truly-called missionaries are not being sent, make people aware of it.  But to pit it against greedy children&#8217;s homes, and greedy OBU is something I am not getting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Shaver</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40547</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Shaver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thomas,

Your fear is a reality.  Motions can be made and passed from now until Jesus Comes but the SBC will not radically change without the Churches turning off the CP spigot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas,</p>
<p>Your fear is a reality.  Motions can be made and passed from now until Jesus Comes but the SBC will not radically change without the Churches turning off the CP spigot.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Sido</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arthur Sido]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very true that denominations don&#039;t fulfill the great commission. On the other hand, neither do local churches. Christians carry out the Great Commission. Jesus didn&#039;t tell the disciples to go out, start churches and then evangelize people. The local assembly of Christians is an outgrowth of evangelism, not a means.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true that denominations don&#8217;t fulfill the great commission. On the other hand, neither do local churches. Christians carry out the Great Commission. Jesus didn&#8217;t tell the disciples to go out, start churches and then evangelize people. The local assembly of Christians is an outgrowth of evangelism, not a means.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the helpful post, Timmy.  Maybe I&#039;ll see you in Louisville?

Blessings,
John]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the helpful post, Timmy.  Maybe I&#8217;ll see you in Louisville?</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Clay</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Clay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy, your points are spot on!  Unfortunately I fear that the only way the SBC will &quot;get it&quot; is through a financial &quot;statement&quot; by SBC churches.  In other words, their attention will only be gotten once SBC churches simply stop supporting the CP (in good conscience) and re-channel their missions budgets towards more accountable missions works (hopefully under local church autonomy and authority).

I&#039;m not crying out for a boycott of the CP.  I&#039;m just saying that it may be that the SBC only really understands dollars and sense...uh...cents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy, your points are spot on!  Unfortunately I fear that the only way the SBC will &#8220;get it&#8221; is through a financial &#8220;statement&#8221; by SBC churches.  In other words, their attention will only be gotten once SBC churches simply stop supporting the CP (in good conscience) and re-channel their missions budgets towards more accountable missions works (hopefully under local church autonomy and authority).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not crying out for a boycott of the CP.  I&#8217;m just saying that it may be that the SBC only really understands dollars and sense&#8230;uh&#8230;cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are some things I don&#039;t understand and maybe you can help me.  What have we stopped doing in carrying out the Great Commission?  What are we going to start doing that we have not been doing to carry out the Great Commission?  Is Salvation not of God?  I have not seen a concerted effort to be on our faces before Him asking him to open the eyes of the blind, giving hearing to the deaf, and to place a new heart and spirit in the dead.  Of course I am talking in a spiritual life way.  Is the problem maybe that we think we can do the Great Commission on our on?  Have we become so big and arrogant that we do not need God?  Can we decide to turn on and off saving grace as if it was a water faucet?  Are we just entering in a new program with baptism goals without talking about new birth?  May be the problem has been our baptism numbers have been higher than our new birth numbers?  I just need help understanding.  A lot of questions but the only answer I have is &quot;but God&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some things I don&#8217;t understand and maybe you can help me.  What have we stopped doing in carrying out the Great Commission?  What are we going to start doing that we have not been doing to carry out the Great Commission?  Is Salvation not of God?  I have not seen a concerted effort to be on our faces before Him asking him to open the eyes of the blind, giving hearing to the deaf, and to place a new heart and spirit in the dead.  Of course I am talking in a spiritual life way.  Is the problem maybe that we think we can do the Great Commission on our on?  Have we become so big and arrogant that we do not need God?  Can we decide to turn on and off saving grace as if it was a water faucet?  Are we just entering in a new program with baptism goals without talking about new birth?  May be the problem has been our baptism numbers have been higher than our new birth numbers?  I just need help understanding.  A lot of questions but the only answer I have is &#8220;but God&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett Wishall</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Garrett Wishall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,

I appreciate the thoughtful and straightforward reply. I value such communication. And I do understand your heart.

I acknowledge that you have a bit more knowledge of national and state convention structure than I: thanks for the info. Good point that state conventions don&#039;t have much accountability.

I&#039;m not saying we all need to just get along: I did say unhelpful, not untrue...though I think state conventions deserve a little move credit than you are giving them.

Difference in style of communication is probably the main difference here: I am used to such candidness being reserved for private conversations with friends. You seem to feel the freedom to post it on blogs. 

As I said, I understand your heart... and I appreciate your passion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,</p>
<p>I appreciate the thoughtful and straightforward reply. I value such communication. And I do understand your heart.</p>
<p>I acknowledge that you have a bit more knowledge of national and state convention structure than I: thanks for the info. Good point that state conventions don&#8217;t have much accountability.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying we all need to just get along: I did say unhelpful, not untrue&#8230;though I think state conventions deserve a little move credit than you are giving them.</p>
<p>Difference in style of communication is probably the main difference here: I am used to such candidness being reserved for private conversations with friends. You seem to feel the freedom to post it on blogs. </p>
<p>As I said, I understand your heart&#8230; and I appreciate your passion.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2009/06/04/denominations-dont-fulfill-the-great-commission-the-christian-index-confesses/#comment-40532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=3453#comment-40532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Garrett,

Thanks for your comment. Allow me to respond for a moment.  The state conventions and local associations can help local churches when they exist to serve the local churches, but that is not always the case (I would argue rarely).  One exception, for example, is when the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina granted funds to Summit Church in Durham to launch a church planting center this past year.  

When I speak arbitrarily, state conventions in a sense do get first dibs (i.e., &quot;direct deposit&quot;) of CP funds because they can determine what percentage of the CP they keep without having to answer to local churches.  Local churches who are holding them accountable are choosing to circumvent state conventions and give directly to Nashville instead.  However, the politics of the SBC kick in if that happens because messengers are determined by your giving to the state route.  Local churches are usually the last to benefit from the Cooperative Program, and since they are the front lines (the only lines?) of the Great Commission, we have it all backwards.  

You say that my comment &quot;every year $300 million is arbitrarily direct-deposited into the piggy banks of state conventions&quot; is &quot;unhelpful&quot; but you did not say it was untrue.  In fact, it &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; true.  That&#039;s a major point behind Article IX of the GCR.  The system is broken. Big time.  And to think that those who are satisfied with the status quo or have stock in the current system would not bring &quot;division&quot; is naive in my opinion.  Since when has the SBC been united on anything anyway?  ;)

What I am saying is that speaking plainly and boldly about some much needed change as unhelpful rhetoric is presented under the false pretense &quot;foster divisiveness&quot; or that reformation comes when we &quot;all just get along.&quot; I know. I have a little more radical approach than what is generally offered.  We all have different ways of making our points.  I am simply trying to speak plainly and boldly about a matter too important to leave with vague generalities or lightweight recommendations.  

In any case, I do hope you understand my heart on this matter and can receive it with the same unfiltered disposition in which it was delivered.  Grace and peace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garrett,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. Allow me to respond for a moment.  The state conventions and local associations can help local churches when they exist to serve the local churches, but that is not always the case (I would argue rarely).  One exception, for example, is when the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina granted funds to Summit Church in Durham to launch a church planting center this past year.  </p>
<p>When I speak arbitrarily, state conventions in a sense do get first dibs (i.e., &#8220;direct deposit&#8221;) of CP funds because they can determine what percentage of the CP they keep without having to answer to local churches.  Local churches who are holding them accountable are choosing to circumvent state conventions and give directly to Nashville instead.  However, the politics of the SBC kick in if that happens because messengers are determined by your giving to the state route.  Local churches are usually the last to benefit from the Cooperative Program, and since they are the front lines (the only lines?) of the Great Commission, we have it all backwards.  </p>
<p>You say that my comment &#8220;every year $300 million is arbitrarily direct-deposited into the piggy banks of state conventions&#8221; is &#8220;unhelpful&#8221; but you did not say it was untrue.  In fact, it <b>is</b> true.  That&#8217;s a major point behind Article IX of the GCR.  The system is broken. Big time.  And to think that those who are satisfied with the status quo or have stock in the current system would not bring &#8220;division&#8221; is naive in my opinion.  Since when has the SBC been united on anything anyway?  <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>What I am saying is that speaking plainly and boldly about some much needed change as unhelpful rhetoric is presented under the false pretense &#8220;foster divisiveness&#8221; or that reformation comes when we &#8220;all just get along.&#8221; I know. I have a little more radical approach than what is generally offered.  We all have different ways of making our points.  I am simply trying to speak plainly and boldly about a matter too important to leave with vague generalities or lightweight recommendations.  </p>
<p>In any case, I do hope you understand my heart on this matter and can receive it with the same unfiltered disposition in which it was delivered.  Grace and peace.</p>
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