<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Casualties of Anti-Calvinism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:22:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Miller&#039;s entire letter to Jerry Vines has been published, I first found it at Peter Lumpkin&#039;s blog and have seen it at other blogs as well and I put it on my blog as well.
http://bororean.blogspot.com/2008/12/chameleon-theology.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Miller&#8217;s entire letter to Jerry Vines has been published, I first found it at Peter Lumpkin&#8217;s blog and have seen it at other blogs as well and I put it on my blog as well.<br />
<a href="http://bororean.blogspot.com/2008/12/chameleon-theology.html" rel="nofollow">http://bororean.blogspot.com/2008/12/chameleon-theology.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

I am sorry to hear about your pastor friend.  Yes, it is widespread and very disheartening, but God is faithful and will work out all things for the good of His people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear about your pastor friend.  Yes, it is widespread and very disheartening, but God is faithful and will work out all things for the good of His people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: davidtjordan</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidtjordan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a pastor friend who is now looking for work as a result of this very thing.  Of course, the church gave other (and more lame) reasons, but nothing was awry until he began teaching a Piper study on Sun. nights.  God forbid, right?  Wow!  Guess I didn&#039;t know how widespread this was.   It&#039;s sad that a denomination that once held these doctrines in such high esteem has fallen to Arminian thought.  Hello? Spurgeon?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a pastor friend who is now looking for work as a result of this very thing.  Of course, the church gave other (and more lame) reasons, but nothing was awry until he began teaching a Piper study on Sun. nights.  God forbid, right?  Wow!  Guess I didn&#8217;t know how widespread this was.   It&#8217;s sad that a denomination that once held these doctrines in such high esteem has fallen to Arminian thought.  Hello? Spurgeon?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Darrin</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39050</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darrin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, I&#039;m coming in late on this conversation, but you wrote:
&quot;The theory that glorifies God most is the one that is correct.&quot;
Absolutely true - and I think everyone here would agree with that.
&quot;If Calvinist doctrines tell a nice story that isn’t true, God isn’t glorified.&quot;
True again. However, I think it is the Arminians that have the &quot;nice story&quot; from a humanistic perspective. Our observations are generally stereotyped as mean and ugly and making God a monster; certainly not as a nice story.
&quot;You may be right, you may be wrong&quot;
Well is he or isn&#039;t he? That&#039;s the crux, isn&#039;t it, as you just indicated. He does have the weight of scripture in his favor.
&quot;but simply painting a bigger picture of God’s sovreignty does not make you correct.&quot;
True. However, painting a biblical picture of God&#039;s sovereignty does make him correct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I&#8217;m coming in late on this conversation, but you wrote:<br />
&#8220;The theory that glorifies God most is the one that is correct.&#8221;<br />
Absolutely true &#8211; and I think everyone here would agree with that.<br />
&#8220;If Calvinist doctrines tell a nice story that isn’t true, God isn’t glorified.&#8221;<br />
True again. However, I think it is the Arminians that have the &#8220;nice story&#8221; from a humanistic perspective. Our observations are generally stereotyped as mean and ugly and making God a monster; certainly not as a nice story.<br />
&#8220;You may be right, you may be wrong&#8221;<br />
Well is he or isn&#8217;t he? That&#8217;s the crux, isn&#8217;t it, as you just indicated. He does have the weight of scripture in his favor.<br />
&#8220;but simply painting a bigger picture of God’s sovreignty does not make you correct.&#8221;<br />
True. However, painting a biblical picture of God&#8217;s sovereignty does make him correct.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Kjos</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Kjos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish someone would give an example of “militant, extreme, aggressive, disruptive Calvinism.” I hear the charge, but it&#039;s never specified who is being accused. If this is not a straw man designed to incite fear, I&#039;d like to know. I&#039;m not SBC, so I don&#039;t see these things first-hand, but from all public reports, I haven&#039;t heard any actual descriptions of “militant, extreme, aggressive, disruptive” behavior of Calvinists. Who are these people?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish someone would give an example of “militant, extreme, aggressive, disruptive Calvinism.” I hear the charge, but it&#8217;s never specified who is being accused. If this is not a straw man designed to incite fear, I&#8217;d like to know. I&#8217;m not SBC, so I don&#8217;t see these things first-hand, but from all public reports, I haven&#8217;t heard any actual descriptions of “militant, extreme, aggressive, disruptive” behavior of Calvinists. Who are these people?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ChrisB</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChrisB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps, &quot;doctrines of sovreign grace?&quot; 

Newton&#039;s Laws have been shown to be inaccurate at high velocity, high gravity, and subatomic levels, so, no, I&#039;m not a Newtonist, but I have studied Newtonian physics.

Timmy, I think complaining that some in the SBC are mean to Calvinists (gross oversimplification for space and time) is counterproductive and could end up only making things worse. Looking at your latest post, if the non-cooperative non-Calvinists over power the others, they could conceivably come to the conclusion that the only way to fix this division is to clean house at SBTS. That won&#039;t help anyone.

The theory that glorifies God most is the one that is correct. If Calvinist doctrines tell a nice story that isn&#039;t true, God isn&#039;t glorified. You may be right, you may be wrong, but simply painting a bigger picture of God&#039;s sovreignty does not make you correct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, &#8220;doctrines of sovreign grace?&#8221; </p>
<p>Newton&#8217;s Laws have been shown to be inaccurate at high velocity, high gravity, and subatomic levels, so, no, I&#8217;m not a Newtonist, but I have studied Newtonian physics.</p>
<p>Timmy, I think complaining that some in the SBC are mean to Calvinists (gross oversimplification for space and time) is counterproductive and could end up only making things worse. Looking at your latest post, if the non-cooperative non-Calvinists over power the others, they could conceivably come to the conclusion that the only way to fix this division is to clean house at SBTS. That won&#8217;t help anyone.</p>
<p>The theory that glorifies God most is the one that is correct. If Calvinist doctrines tell a nice story that isn&#8217;t true, God isn&#8217;t glorified. You may be right, you may be wrong, but simply painting a bigger picture of God&#8217;s sovreignty does not make you correct.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todd Burus</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39019</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Burus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’d be interested in knowing, given my response, that the Calvinist and non-Calvinist view the doctrine of saving grace the same way. If they don’t, then which one glorifies the God of all grace?&quot;

Timmy,
I don&#039;t know if this is what you are looking for, but I found it interesting the way in which Jerry Vines described how saving faith works at J316C.  He says, &quot;It seems to me that God has given to every man a measure of faith . . .  We use that faculty of faith every day. . . .  Could it be that saving faith is a faith that is lifted to a higher level?&quot;  

Similarly Paige Patterson articulated what could only be termed as prevenient grace in describing a situation with a blind, disoriented pilot that was drowning out to sea after a crash who still had senses enough left to simply reach out and hold onto the rescuers that had come to save him.  

This is, as far as I can tell, basic Wesleyan theology and a step short of pure synergism (in my opinion it is just masked synergism), which means it is for all intents and purposes semi-Pelagianism (right?).  If this is the case, I think the question of which one is more glorifying to the God of all grace is a no brainer.  (I am open to revision of this claim if people want to disgaree, but working on my own it seems like the most natural conclusion).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d be interested in knowing, given my response, that the Calvinist and non-Calvinist view the doctrine of saving grace the same way. If they don’t, then which one glorifies the God of all grace?&#8221;</p>
<p>Timmy,<br />
I don&#8217;t know if this is what you are looking for, but I found it interesting the way in which Jerry Vines described how saving faith works at J316C.  He says, &#8220;It seems to me that God has given to every man a measure of faith . . .  We use that faculty of faith every day. . . .  Could it be that saving faith is a faith that is lifted to a higher level?&#8221;  </p>
<p>Similarly Paige Patterson articulated what could only be termed as prevenient grace in describing a situation with a blind, disoriented pilot that was drowning out to sea after a crash who still had senses enough left to simply reach out and hold onto the rescuers that had come to save him.  </p>
<p>This is, as far as I can tell, basic Wesleyan theology and a step short of pure synergism (in my opinion it is just masked synergism), which means it is for all intents and purposes semi-Pelagianism (right?).  If this is the case, I think the question of which one is more glorifying to the God of all grace is a no brainer.  (I am open to revision of this claim if people want to disgaree, but working on my own it seems like the most natural conclusion).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Twitchell</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39014</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Twitchell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’ll look forward to when you get this SBC issue out of your system and go back to blue collar theology.&quot;

One of the things that plagues the SBC is a fundametalist ethic that is anti-intellectual, the fear that competing knowledge will not be able to be defended against. Consequently, the deeper doctrines tend to be left behind and the children remain children, weak and vulnerable. 

There is an academic level, inquiry that is that is elite. That is, God has gifted the body with men (women too) who have highly motivated intellect. The level of discourse in that is &quot;ivory tower&quot; by necessity of the fact that the world is. God has not left us without witness nor those who are equipped to defend the faith at those levels. We cannot, as was the attitude of the Fundies, separate and not persue academia.

The problem is really, how then is what is given by God in those circles of academia, translated into &quot;blue-collar&quot; theology. We cannot simply dumb down, not expecting that the pewster will not comprehend. Instead what we want, what we are commanded, is to encourage maturity. The technical knowledge or the intellectual acuity does not need to be ubiquitous. Yet, we must teach with the goal being that all come into the unity of the faith, no longer being children, to the stature of the fulnss of the knowledge of the Son of God. There is no putting on the armor with it. It is, in fact, the mark of true salvation that the disciple matures in the knowledge of the Son. Both Hebrews, the end of 5 and the beginning of 6, and Ephesians, instructs us as to this matter. The lesser doctrines (not dispensable), are to be learned. But, there is more. That is where many have failed.

For instance, what is grace? What is meant by predestination, election, monergism, synergism, what is theology proper, soteriology, etc, and how do we then defend the reality of these theologies from Scripture. There is elite knowledge in each category, but it is not inaccessable to the blue-collar believer. The only thing that is necessary is for the gifted to translate to the disciples what the meaning is in terms that can be comprehended.

Why is there controversy? Is it not because the information that should have been part of the SBC missiology of education has been withheld from the very people which were meant to be served by it. In other words, the questions about the DoG, or Calvinism versus Arminian tendency, should not come as a surprise. Proper education would have prevented much of the disruption. It is as if something new or foreign has been introduced into the SBC. When in fact, as was mentioned, Calvinisim isn&#039;t new, it is the foundation of the SBC. The real crime is that the man in the pew has had that information delivered to him, and meaning has been withheld.

The issues aside for a second of whether one system is true the other false or whatever critical analysis is made, the more basic issue, and one that is being played out by the expulsion of individuals for beliefs actually allowed in the BFM but which differ from the Arminian faction, is why the laity has be cheated out of a full growth ministry. I mean by that, this controversy should not be so divisive, and wouldn&#039;t have been, had the leaders of the SBC done their job of education. Ignorance more than anything is destroying the flock, as it is written, &quot;My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge.&quot;

Our mission purpose has in this effect been largely abandoned. The reactionary stance of the common man in the pew is then to be expected. And, not only has the vital information been withheld, but as we are seeing, the truth is being supplanted by misinformation campaigns, whether intended or not. From reading the transcripts and listening to the tapes, one wonders if those who are paid to be faithful to educate have been educated themselves. That aside, the real answer, the only answer, to the division and disruption is open examination of the facts. If we could get past the defensive posturing (mostly from the majoritarians) and reengage what distinguished the Reformation from the Roman system, getting the truth to the people in their common language and understanding, and really explore the meaning of soul competency and of liberty, we could then move mountains or build bridges over them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ll look forward to when you get this SBC issue out of your system and go back to blue collar theology.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of the things that plagues the SBC is a fundametalist ethic that is anti-intellectual, the fear that competing knowledge will not be able to be defended against. Consequently, the deeper doctrines tend to be left behind and the children remain children, weak and vulnerable. </p>
<p>There is an academic level, inquiry that is that is elite. That is, God has gifted the body with men (women too) who have highly motivated intellect. The level of discourse in that is &#8220;ivory tower&#8221; by necessity of the fact that the world is. God has not left us without witness nor those who are equipped to defend the faith at those levels. We cannot, as was the attitude of the Fundies, separate and not persue academia.</p>
<p>The problem is really, how then is what is given by God in those circles of academia, translated into &#8220;blue-collar&#8221; theology. We cannot simply dumb down, not expecting that the pewster will not comprehend. Instead what we want, what we are commanded, is to encourage maturity. The technical knowledge or the intellectual acuity does not need to be ubiquitous. Yet, we must teach with the goal being that all come into the unity of the faith, no longer being children, to the stature of the fulnss of the knowledge of the Son of God. There is no putting on the armor with it. It is, in fact, the mark of true salvation that the disciple matures in the knowledge of the Son. Both Hebrews, the end of 5 and the beginning of 6, and Ephesians, instructs us as to this matter. The lesser doctrines (not dispensable), are to be learned. But, there is more. That is where many have failed.</p>
<p>For instance, what is grace? What is meant by predestination, election, monergism, synergism, what is theology proper, soteriology, etc, and how do we then defend the reality of these theologies from Scripture. There is elite knowledge in each category, but it is not inaccessable to the blue-collar believer. The only thing that is necessary is for the gifted to translate to the disciples what the meaning is in terms that can be comprehended.</p>
<p>Why is there controversy? Is it not because the information that should have been part of the SBC missiology of education has been withheld from the very people which were meant to be served by it. In other words, the questions about the DoG, or Calvinism versus Arminian tendency, should not come as a surprise. Proper education would have prevented much of the disruption. It is as if something new or foreign has been introduced into the SBC. When in fact, as was mentioned, Calvinisim isn&#8217;t new, it is the foundation of the SBC. The real crime is that the man in the pew has had that information delivered to him, and meaning has been withheld.</p>
<p>The issues aside for a second of whether one system is true the other false or whatever critical analysis is made, the more basic issue, and one that is being played out by the expulsion of individuals for beliefs actually allowed in the BFM but which differ from the Arminian faction, is why the laity has be cheated out of a full growth ministry. I mean by that, this controversy should not be so divisive, and wouldn&#8217;t have been, had the leaders of the SBC done their job of education. Ignorance more than anything is destroying the flock, as it is written, &#8220;My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge.&#8221;</p>
<p>Our mission purpose has in this effect been largely abandoned. The reactionary stance of the common man in the pew is then to be expected. And, not only has the vital information been withheld, but as we are seeing, the truth is being supplanted by misinformation campaigns, whether intended or not. From reading the transcripts and listening to the tapes, one wonders if those who are paid to be faithful to educate have been educated themselves. That aside, the real answer, the only answer, to the division and disruption is open examination of the facts. If we could get past the defensive posturing (mostly from the majoritarians) and reengage what distinguished the Reformation from the Roman system, getting the truth to the people in their common language and understanding, and really explore the meaning of soul competency and of liberty, we could then move mountains or build bridges over them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan Finn on Calvinism and Cooperation &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Finn on Calvinism and Cooperation &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (not five-point Calvinists), and on the other side to non-Calvinists and anti-Calvinists.  My last post revealed some of the results from continued anti-Calvinism, and in the article prior to that I made [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (not five-point Calvinists), and on the other side to non-Calvinists and anti-Calvinists.  My last post revealed some of the results from continued anti-Calvinism, and in the article prior to that I made [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: strangebaptistfire</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/08/casualties-of-anti-calvinism/#comment-39008</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[strangebaptistfire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/?p=2908#comment-39008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy.
I am greatly indebted to you and the other brothers who began SBF. I have found much useful info there, and am glad the archives are still available back to 2006. I can only hope to be helpful in supporting Andrew and Dustin there as God gives grace.
-Darrin]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy.<br />
I am greatly indebted to you and the other brothers who began SBF. I have found much useful info there, and am glad the archives are still available back to 2006. I can only hope to be helpful in supporting Andrew and Dustin there as God gives grace.<br />
-Darrin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

