Comments on: Putting Things in Perspective

By: Keith

Keith — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:01:37 +0000

Paul made the above comment “But for the Grace of God, it could happen here. ” I wonder whether we have a clear handle on thinking about grace when we use phrases like this. Is the corollary that if it happens here, it becomes from a lack of the grace of God? Are our Christian brethren somehow out of the grace of God? Where does grace reside? If God should allow the forces of darkness to sweep across America or Australia (my country) is somehow His grace removed? Is it against grace that persecution comes upon His church? Does grace run in genes or nations? No – grace is deep and rich – grace upon grace – whether in persecution or in relative peace. Grace is that is that which is sustaining our brothers and sisters under persecution – God’s giving all of Himself for our good. So I would beseech us all to think clearly when we use phrases “there for but the grace of God it could happen here”.

By: Jim Pemberton

Jim Pemberton — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:52:01 +0000

It’s amazing how God uses persecution to purify His church. Do we call persecution good or evil? The enemies of God intend to do evil. God intends it for good. It’s horrifying to see, but focuses us on what is important. Good post.

By: Putting Things in Perspective « Allsufficientgrace

Putting Things in Perspective « Allsufficientgrace — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:20:18 +0000

[...] Things in Perspective Timmy Brister: At a time when our attention is unnecessarily drawn the continual division over nonessentials in [...]

By: Darren Casper

Darren Casper — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:52:14 +0000

great post Tim

Pray for our new work in the south St. Louis Bevo neighborhood…

Many immigrant and refugee communities live here

By: Perspective … | The Daily Scroll

Perspective … | The Daily Scroll — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:56:42 +0000

[...] … December 3, 2008 A recent post by Timmy Brister begins: “At a time when our attention is unnecessarily drawn the continual [...]

By: A little perspective! « Strengthened by Grace

A little perspective! « Strengthened by Grace — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:33:38 +0000

[...] the timing of the rapture, or concerned about what they are going to buy for Christmas. No, as Timmy Brister points out, they wake up every morning wondering which believers were killed in the last 24-hours. They live [...]

By: Jeff Hill

Jeff Hill — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:22:09 +0000

Thank you Timmy for your response. I think I must have miscommunicated something along the way. I agree that you do not have to believe in the doctrines of grace in order to be a christian. My argument is that those who are teachers (who are held to a higher standard) and teach a works salvation, which as far as I can tell is any other soteriology but the doctrines of grace, are unconverted. Galatians 1, 2 John, Romans, etc. lead me to this conclusion. I would love your thoughts on those who teach?

By: Darby Livingston

Darby Livingston — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:09:09 +0000

“I was wondering why you(and everyone else I have ever talked to) would categorize the sovereignty of God in salvation as a nonessential.”

J.I. Packer said it best in pointing out that we’re all the same in the prayer closet. The very fact that our non-Calvinist brothers and sisters pray to God for the salvation of those close to them displays their functional theology. Whether they can get their minds around the doctrine or not, every Christian is a Calvinist in the closet.

By: Pregador27

Pregador27 — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:09:21 +0000

Timmy,
I was thinking along these lines earlier today when I went on our weekly evangelism outreach here in Brooksville. When we were able to lead a lady to Christ it did not matter that I am Reformed and the brother I went with is an KJV-Only Independent Baptist.

Souls being impacted for the Kingdom and brothers and sisters under persecution have no need of debates, but of prayer. The debates are good and all, but when some try to dis-fellowship brothers in Christ over what I agree are non-essentials (even if they are important). We can debate over these issues, but we need to be able to work together for the Gospel when our academic and theological exercises are over.

Just my $.02.

By: Timmy Brister

Timmy Brister — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:16:18 +0000

First of all, I don’t know why my tags and categories are not showing up on this post. But that’s a side note.

Jeff,

I don’t know of any Calvinist who argue that it is essential to believe in the doctrines of grace to be in Christ. The essentials are those which are necessary to be a Christian, such as the deity of Christ, His incarnation, substitutionary death, bodily resurrection, second coming, inspiration, inerrancy, authority, and sufficiency of Scripture, the Trinity, etc. Perhaps the five solas would be best describe orthodoxy (sola Scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus, soli deo gloria).

You do not have to believe in unconditional election to be a Christian, but you do have to believe that salvation is God’s work perfected in His Son and we receive Christ by repentance and faith. No lordship salvation who deny repentance would be false teaching as would Pelagianism as would hyper-Calvinism as would an Open Theist. While I disagree with classical Arminianism, I cannot (and Calvinists will not) argue they are false believers.

As far as I can humanly tell, Johnny Hunt is a faithful devoted follower of Christ. Does he agree with the doctrines of grace? No. But does he believe that salvation is the work of God saving sinners through the person and work of Christ and appropriated by the Holy Spirit? Yes.

There was a time when I was not Reformed in my soteriology, but that did not make me lost. I was largely ignorant and to some degree opposed not because of the doctrines but more by the way they were being communicated to me. I knew I was a sinner separated from God and that Jesus was the only one who could save me. I cried out to Him in faith, and God saved me. In my childhood, I did not understand all the doctrines that accompany the gospel, but one thing I did know was that I was once lost and then I was found by Christ.

To make the case that one must be a Calvinist to be a Christian is to make an argument that every Calvinist I know would disagree. Having said that, there is nothing more important than to know the gospel as fully as we can. We should devote our lives to this. We will be judged by this. In fact, not giving ourselves, we are endangering our souls as well as those who listen to us (1 Tim. 4).

The gospel is entrusted to us, and that means as stewards we are to know/experience it deeply and share it widely. I did the latter well as a non-Calvinist but not the former. Some Calvinists do the former and neglect the latter. Stewardship means both, and that goes for all Christians whether Calvinist or Arminian.

I hope that makes sense. This in no way diminishes the importance of the doctrines of grace, but it does mean that we cannot elevate them as a requirement to be a true believer in Christ.