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	<title>Comments on: Word-Driven Movemental Christianity</title>
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	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: Recent Links Tagged With "scalability" - JabberTags</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Recent Links Tagged With "scalability" - JabberTags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] on Wed 19-11-2008   Scaling Agile is Like Scaling a Cherry Saved by cairon on Tue 18-11-2008   Word-Driven Movemental Christianity Saved by mammie63 on Thu 13-11-2008   Google talks about Rails scalability Saved by Shanathan7 on [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on Wed 19-11-2008   Scaling Agile is Like Scaling a Cherry Saved by cairon on Tue 18-11-2008   Word-Driven Movemental Christianity Saved by mammie63 on Thu 13-11-2008   Google talks about Rails scalability Saved by Shanathan7 on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TRW,

I see what you are saying. I don&#039;t want to advocate that Garrison does not believe in the authority or importance of Scripture(!); what I am trying to say is what I discover in Scripture regarding the movement of the gospel and churches in the early church is that it is the Word that worked; and to the degree that the Word was rightly preached and properly received, the church went forward; therefore, the Word is central in the proclamation and central in the foundation (and central in transmission -1 Cor. 15:1-4 . . . I delivered to you what I received - the gospel).  

I appreciate your responses and look forward to learning and discussing these matters with the goal of edification and encouragement.  Grace and peace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TRW,</p>
<p>I see what you are saying. I don&#8217;t want to advocate that Garrison does not believe in the authority or importance of Scripture(!); what I am trying to say is what I discover in Scripture regarding the movement of the gospel and churches in the early church is that it is the Word that worked; and to the degree that the Word was rightly preached and properly received, the church went forward; therefore, the Word is central in the proclamation and central in the foundation (and central in transmission -1 Cor. 15:1-4 . . . I delivered to you what I received &#8211; the gospel).  </p>
<p>I appreciate your responses and look forward to learning and discussing these matters with the goal of edification and encouragement.  Grace and peace.</p>
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		<title>By: TRW</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TRW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand both your points and thanks for responding.  I guess I would have to agree with you on the prescriptive/descriptive part.  
Speed is considered important, but, I think that even though it is not in the definition, CPM proponents would argue that CPMs will not happen if the Word is not foundational. That is just for what its worth.  THanks for your article and your many good insights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand both your points and thanks for responding.  I guess I would have to agree with you on the prescriptive/descriptive part.<br />
Speed is considered important, but, I think that even though it is not in the definition, CPM proponents would argue that CPMs will not happen if the Word is not foundational. That is just for what its worth.  THanks for your article and your many good insights.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TRW,

If I have misunderstood Garrison on the Bible&#039;s authority, I stand corrected.  I do not know Garrison, and I am only responding to what he has written in his book.  It is really difficult to conclude, however, that his controlling belief is rapidity because it is the sole requirement for validating his definition of a CPM (conversion rate has to outstrip the birth rate).  When the Scripture is not primary in your paradigm, then the role it plays, even in secondary status is minimal at best.  I would be interested in hearing the case that speed is not the dominating factor in Garrison&#039;s model. 

While the 10 factors may be considered descriptive in the book, they are being treated as prescriptive by the IMB.  Moreover, throughout the book Garrison is prescribing his understanding of CPM&#039;s to be the best way of reaching the world (Garrison states that “without exaggeration we can say that Church Planting Movements are the most effective means in the world today for drawing lost millions into saving, disciple-building relationships with Jesus Christ”); therefore, to argue that they are descriptive seems a bit disingenuous.  

Thanks for the comment, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TRW,</p>
<p>If I have misunderstood Garrison on the Bible&#8217;s authority, I stand corrected.  I do not know Garrison, and I am only responding to what he has written in his book.  It is really difficult to conclude, however, that his controlling belief is rapidity because it is the sole requirement for validating his definition of a CPM (conversion rate has to outstrip the birth rate).  When the Scripture is not primary in your paradigm, then the role it plays, even in secondary status is minimal at best.  I would be interested in hearing the case that speed is not the dominating factor in Garrison&#8217;s model. </p>
<p>While the 10 factors may be considered descriptive in the book, they are being treated as prescriptive by the IMB.  Moreover, throughout the book Garrison is prescribing his understanding of CPM&#8217;s to be the best way of reaching the world (Garrison states that “without exaggeration we can say that Church Planting Movements are the most effective means in the world today for drawing lost millions into saving, disciple-building relationships with Jesus Christ”); therefore, to argue that they are descriptive seems a bit disingenuous.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the comment, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts here.</p>
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		<title>By: TRW</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TRW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,
Having read the book and worked with Garrison, I think you may have misunderstood some statements.  When he says the Bible is the authority- He means it.  We strip away things that slow down the movement- but this is in accordance to the Word.  So western cultural things may be stripped away, but not the Word of God or commands given therein.  Also- these 10 factors are descriptive, not prescriptive.  The turning over of leadership is not walking away and leaving them on thier own.  It is having them obey what they are learning.  While keeping contact through discipleship chains( I am discipling the leaders I have led to the Lord/am working with- they are in turn discipling the ones they have led/trained- and so on).  But to the original point- the idea is that the Word is our authority- it is the basis of all we do and teach others to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,<br />
Having read the book and worked with Garrison, I think you may have misunderstood some statements.  When he says the Bible is the authority- He means it.  We strip away things that slow down the movement- but this is in accordance to the Word.  So western cultural things may be stripped away, but not the Word of God or commands given therein.  Also- these 10 factors are descriptive, not prescriptive.  The turning over of leadership is not walking away and leaving them on thier own.  It is having them obey what they are learning.  While keeping contact through discipleship chains( I am discipling the leaders I have led to the Lord/am working with- they are in turn discipling the ones they have led/trained- and so on).  But to the original point- the idea is that the Word is our authority- it is the basis of all we do and teach others to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Word and Spirit in the Early Church &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-38368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Word and Spirit in the Early Church &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-38368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of months ago, I shared a brief critique on church planting movements while advocating a &#8220;word-driven movemental Christianity&#8220;.  Because of our church&#8217;s new church planting initiative, I have been living in the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of months ago, I shared a brief critique on church planting movements while advocating a &#8220;word-driven movemental Christianity&#8220;.  Because of our church&#8217;s new church planting initiative, I have been living in the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bruce Ashford on Church Planting Movements &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-37738</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ashford on Church Planting Movements &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-37738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] post an exerpt speaking to church planting movements.  You may recall that I wrote briefly about a word-driven movemental Christianity and raised several questions regarding David Garrison&#8217;s paradigm that is being used [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post an exerpt speaking to church planting movements.  You may recall that I wrote briefly about a word-driven movemental Christianity and raised several questions regarding David Garrison&#8217;s paradigm that is being used [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-37695</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-37695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ChrisM,

Thanks for sharing your take on this phenomena.  Your reports on the emphasis of speed and ten essential elements are consistent with what I have heard elsewhere from other missionaries.  It seems that wisdom would call for greater discernment in this area, especially in prescribing a paradigm not fitted to Scripture and (ironically enough) not reproducible in other parts of the world.  I hope that other faithful missionaries would not be replaced or discouraged by their uninvolvement or inability to fit the paradigm.  I hope to write about this more later.  Thanks again for your input.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ChrisM,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your take on this phenomena.  Your reports on the emphasis of speed and ten essential elements are consistent with what I have heard elsewhere from other missionaries.  It seems that wisdom would call for greater discernment in this area, especially in prescribing a paradigm not fitted to Scripture and (ironically enough) not reproducible in other parts of the world.  I hope that other faithful missionaries would not be replaced or discouraged by their uninvolvement or inability to fit the paradigm.  I hope to write about this more later.  Thanks again for your input.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisM</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-37693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChrisM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-37693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim,  The main issue I found with the book was the way the IMB has used it to prescribe methods for generating CPMs rather than simply to describe them as Garrison seems to do.  I was with the IMB when the book was published.  The message was, &quot;If you really want to be successful, you&#039;ll get these 10 things going.&quot;  Emphasis was placed on speed of starting &amp; turning over leadership of new plants.  I witnessed church plants being aborted &amp; missionaries being relocated because the work didn&#039;t fit the paradigm.

The reference above to Finney&#039;s burned-over districts is telling.  When we try to replicate the work of the Spirit by our own energies, we&#039;ll reap weeds.  The flesh will never give birth to spirit.

By grace,
Chris]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,  The main issue I found with the book was the way the IMB has used it to prescribe methods for generating CPMs rather than simply to describe them as Garrison seems to do.  I was with the IMB when the book was published.  The message was, &#8220;If you really want to be successful, you&#8217;ll get these 10 things going.&#8221;  Emphasis was placed on speed of starting &amp; turning over leadership of new plants.  I witnessed church plants being aborted &amp; missionaries being relocated because the work didn&#8217;t fit the paradigm.</p>
<p>The reference above to Finney&#8217;s burned-over districts is telling.  When we try to replicate the work of the Spirit by our own energies, we&#8217;ll reap weeds.  The flesh will never give birth to spirit.</p>
<p>By grace,<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Be The Fruit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blog Roundup - Some suggested reading.</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2008/08/10/word-driven-movemental-christianity/#comment-37675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Be The Fruit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blog Roundup - Some suggested reading.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.wordpress.com/?p=2425#comment-37675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Brister wrote a very detailed post about &#8220;Word-Driven Movemental Christianity&#8221; here.  Timmy argues that the Word should be the center of any church-planting movement rather than [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brister wrote a very detailed post about &#8220;Word-Driven Movemental Christianity&#8221; here.  Timmy argues that the Word should be the center of any church-planting movement rather than [...]</p>
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