You are exactly right. For all the talk about “Baptist Identity” going on these days, Baptists (and mostly non-Calvinists at that) are acting more like Presbyterians by the day. Whey many disagree with the theology of the Westminster Divines, they seem quite sympathetic in their practice.

Before the 1950’s, no records were kept of children baptisms because it simply did not occur. Now, increasing percentages of baptisms are of children under the age of six. For example, if you go to the archives of the Sunday when Hunt announced to his church his run for president of the SBC, they baptized several children so small they could not stand up in the water. And this is an all too common reality among SBC churches today, and evidence that we are divorcing the ordinance of baptism from regenerate church membership and any credible evidence or experience of grace that is discernable to the leadership or congregation.

You know, you should keep this quote filed away for future use.

Use it:

1. Every time Ergun Caner (or any other non-Calvinist Baptist) criticizes John Piper’s church for what they thought about doing a couple of years ago with adults and NOT children.

2. Apropos 1 every time a critic of Baptist Calvinism calls us “Presbyterians” as an epithet.

Reformed / Sovereign Grace Baptists do not, as a rule, baptize toddlers.

Many times in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) we hear concerns over Calvinism and how it can split a church or destroy evangelism. And just as many times the Calvinist answers that those charges are not true. But are they true? Well, theology …

Second another Hunt quote, “When someone comes forward (to be a member of Hunt’s church), I have a trained counselor, and I want that trained counselor to go back and make sure this person understands what it takes to become a believer. We have new-member classes. It’s not mandatory, but we highly recommend they go, and the majority do go through our class.”

It is a bit unfair (isn’t it) to slice two quotes out of their contexts and not at the very least strongly encourage the blog readers to read up prior to reaction.

I am not particularly a huge fan of Hunt, but since what I quote above comes just prior to what is quoted on your blog it seemed reasonable to give at least a bit more credibility to Hunt’s own intentional “filtering” for membership.

And Dagg at least admits that there is a distance beyond which the truly regenerate church cannot go in deciding these things. This seems to coincide in some measure with Hunt’s point which you quoted.

For Hunt, a better passage to allude to might have been the parable of the wheat and the tares. Here the servants are told not to pull up the tares lest in doing so the wheat be damaged.

Finally, why not compare Hunt with Ranier? Ranier is admits that his own church has clear flaws in this area.

Ranier also states in the article you reference, “Only churches that are connecting with their communities and living incarnationally should attempt to clean their rolls. So if your church is not evangelistic, does not have a missions program, and does not do outreach, then do not even think about cleaning the rolls. Pour your pastoral energies into getting the church to obey the Great Commission first.”

This is an interesting quote from Ranier as it sounds very much like Hunt in the same article being quoted here, “I’d like to challenge them to come up with a prayer campaign. I’d like to challenge them to use our evangelists (preachers who who specialize in leading revival services). Whatever is important to the pastors becomes important to the people. For some reason, it’s not been a priority with a lot of our pastors. We need to talk a lot more about being intentional. It can happen to any of us. I’ve been a pastor for 32 years. I went through two years of a major plateau with (church growth). A lot of it had to do with not being focused myself and a failure to refocus and think what are the most important things.

Sometimes when you are not fishing, you’re fighting, and I don’t think we’re fishing. Jesus said, ‘I will make you fishers of men.’ If you’re not fishing, what are you doing? Probably meddling in somebody else’s business, coming up with something you don’t like about the fishing industry. I want to get us back to fishing.”

It seems there are lot of things and ways to make quotes play off of each other.

I see the Gospel as the primary means of discipline, and I too see discipline as a continuum, rebuke, reproof, correction and training in righteousness so that the people of God will be fully equipped. Which is why I mention the need of the church to repent as Eric Redmond covers in his fine address at the Founders Breakfast. It is not just non-attenders, nor the uncommitted attenders, but it is the “priesthood of believers,” layman and leader alike. The Regenerate Church is a church that is healthy head and toe.

Hopefully, this Resolution will provoke engagement more fully in ecclesiology, not just baptist distinctives, but a renewed interest in wholistic teaching of what the body of Christ should be and should be doing. We as baptists are not alone in decline. And it is not just membership but what a White Horse Inn series is pointing to, the loss of the Gospel. The answer can only be that we rediscover The Book. Leaders such as TA have be criticized for mentioning recovering the Gospel. I happen to think they are right. As with the Great Commission ,for whatever reason we have imbalanced it, focussing on converts and baptism while neglecting the faithful responsibility to insure that the proselyte is matured.

I am convinced that truth as revealed in Scripture is the key health. To that end, investment in a renewed interest in doctrinal acuity will do what the word says, build up the body of Christ in the faith and love of God.

But what I’m trying to avoid is the narrow definition of church discipline that ignores the discussion of God’s discipline in Hebrews 12, for instance, which addresses us in our struggle against sin. It seems that temptation and sanctification are particularly in the writer’s mind — God disciplines those whom he loves… THEREFORE… strengthen each other, encourage each other with the word. I’ve had conversations with SO many Christians for whom “church discipline” = excommunication; surely that is too narrow a definition! I think the Matthew 18 passage needs to be read alongside Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians, especially because Mt 18 seems to be about personal offenses. It addresses just one type of disciplinary situation that elders will have to deal with.

Is this clear at all? Sorry if it’s not!!