Indy for the Outie: Open Thread
Apparently, I am not the only one who could not attend this year’s SBC Annual Meeting, so I thought I might try the open thread thing again like last year. The purpose of this post is simply to open up the discussion to talk about anything related to the annual meeting (a recent article by Sam Hodges of Dallas Morning News has been referenced a time or two already). To view the events of the SBC Meeting, click here. Some of the topics may include:
* SBC Presidential race (who and why)
* Regenerate Church Membership (and other resolutions)
* Will the 101st resolution on alcohol get passed?
* Will the Garner Motion (re: BF&M) get raised again?
* Will the IMB policies and push for reversal get a hearing?
* Will will be said regarding Calvinism? Emerging church movement?
* Will the Cooperative Program be as dominant an issue as years before?
* How many people attending this year will not have gray hair?
* How many times will the shofar be blown in the next two days?
* How many non-white people also will be in attendance?
* Any thoughts on the SBC “Hall of Fame Faith”?
* Will the issue of the environment and global warming “heat up” again?
* What about the camel method and missions strategies?
* Will Wiley Drake’s nominating speech be as entertaining as last year?
* Will there be more or less messengers this year? What does this say?
* With the SBC in decline, how will Southern Baptists respond?
* Will there be any surprises or unsuspecting controversies to erupt this year?
* Or could it be that people are growing more ambivalent and jaded in the process?
* Could there be a renewal and consensus, working toward a “Great Commission Resurgence?”
Well, that’s some off the top of my head for starters. 
If there is anything that crosses your minded somewhat related, feel free to bring it up (especially if you have been uniquely qualified by one of these pictures):
Or if you have mastered the technique to reaching out to the young leaders of the SBC like my favorite minister of mischief, King Kummer has in this video:
Or if love has compelled you to twitter all the happenings as Ed Stetzer has (hilarious pics BTW).
But seriously, there are some things I find particularly important, as you know. Tuesday morning at the Founders Breakfast Eric Redmond will be talking about “The Reformation That Must Come.” Speaking of Eric, I think that, were he to run this year for Prez, he would win hands down (hint). I am also hoping that Dr. Dockery’s recent release on Southern Baptist Consensus and Renewal will win the day when it comes to the infighting and narrowing of cooperation. For those who might want to check in at times where issues are most like to be raised, you might want to mark these following times:
Tuesday:
8:40 a.m. - Motions
2:45 p.m. - Election of Officers (1)
3:10 p.m. - Motions
4:20 p.m. - Motions
4:55 p.m. - Election of Officers (2)
7:20 p.m. - Election of Officers (3)
7:40 p.m. - “Previously Scheduled Business”
Wednesday:
8:20 a.m. - Election of Officers (4)
8:50 a.m. - “Previously Scheduled Business”
9:05 a.m. - Committee on Resolutions (1)
10:35 a.m. - Election of Officers (5)
6:20 p.m. - Presentation of New Officers
7:00 p.m. - “Previously Scheduled Business”
7:15 p.m. - Committee on Resolutions (2)
Other reports worth checking into are the IMB and NAMB reports, each of the six seminaries, and the Executive Committee (two parts). You can view the entire schedule by going here. Lastly, I will say that I have appreciated the leadership of Dr. Frank Page over the past two years. He is a true statesman for the SBC, and while I have disagreed with him on some issues (not the least of which is Calvinism), I appreciate his commitment to being a gracious man with an irenic spirit (see also Ben Cole’s tribute). I hope that whoever fills his shoes, regardless of his theological or political convictions, they will carry on with this same spirit and demeanor.
So there you go. The thread is open to talk about whatever else related to the SBC. In the meantime, I, too, will twit a little myself.
Tags: Annual Meeting, Open Discussion, SBC
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June 10, 2008 at 5:37 am
Hey Timmy, While you’re up there my friend Bobby Lane will be there. He just finished with a two year journeyman stint in Peru and he’s going to be presenting on the IMB’s behalf. Please meet up with him. He’s one of the most amazing people you’ll meet. He’s got my cell phone so just call him. You would both enjoy it. Well that’s all for now. Oh yeah, and Spence and Amy had their baby.
June 10, 2008 at 7:09 am
Kind of wish I was there this year, but I’m not. It’s usually turned around for me the other way. I am praying for good things to happen over the next couple days. Timmy, if you’re man enough, you and Tom will hit the Olan Mills booth and take a Paul/Timothy photo like the one above. You can make the time, so no excuses! Just spend less time stealing pens and Bit O Honey’s from booths you have no intention of interacting with.
BTW, I don’t recognize those guys in the photo.
June 10, 2008 at 8:12 am
There were just motions about getting rid of churches with female pastors and posting the American flag, among other things. Also, the Gaither Vocal Band sang a song about being somewhere between Jesus and John Wayne. The crowd seemed to like that a great deal.
June 10, 2008 at 8:16 am
Zach,
Unfortunately, I am here in FL and not there in Indy. I would love to see Bobby again (especially if he still has the dreads). Anyone who can trek the AT backwards is a stud. Seriously though, I want to get up with him, so if you have any contact info please send it via email (I will try calling him via your phone). That’s great to hear about Spence and Amy by the way! Snowbird is becoming quite the family!
June 10, 2008 at 8:18 am
Joe,
I think he Olan Mills pic of Tom and me would never be lived down.
I guess that’s why I am stuck here in Cape Coral. But yeah, that photo of you and Steve is priceless. I could not miss another opportunity of spreading the love. BTW, you are in trouble for getting me into twittering.
June 10, 2008 at 8:23 am
Alan,
I can’t believe that I missed the first motion. I thought Indy was on central time! Oh well. So the first two motions were about women in ministry and American flags. Hmmm.
I did notice that BP is reporting that 6,000 messengers have registered. If that is anywhere close to the final count, that is over 2,000 less than last year (in 07, 11k were expected and close to 9k registered).
http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=129&title=More+than+6%2C000+messengers+registered
June 10, 2008 at 8:55 am
From Tom Ascol’s blog:
Though I didn’t hear it myself, I heard on good authority that Charles Lowrey actually said in his message that God told him to get “baptized again” as an encouragement for others to get baptized who might be hesitant…and he was advocating this for the pastors to whom he was preaching!
Yikes.
Tom has also mentioned that a resolution on regenerate church membership will come out, but is likely that it will NOT include the language of repentance. Tom plans to speak to this resolution and call for an amendment, when which, as he says, another author will speak in agreement. Let’s pray that a strong stance on integrity in church membership comes out.
June 10, 2008 at 9:10 am
We need to repent of not repenting, actually. Unreal. Maybe by rebaptizing everyone, they are secretly talking about repentance. ?????
Jack Wilkerson, the guy who made the motion about no SBC entity heads running for president, is real high up in the Executive Committee, I just learned. Interesting.
Thanks for the registration info. I’m trying to blog this over at my place as well and you’re giving me some good stuff. I might call you in a little while.
June 10, 2008 at 9:13 am
Ronnie Floyd’s reflection on Greensboro (06) and disappointment:
After the public announcement was made in May, by Dr. Johnny Hunt, that my name would be placed into nomination, events began that were unlike any I have ever had cast against me . These events began to raise questions about whether I was worthy to serve as the President. Even though I had served the denomination in three of its most prominent positions–President of the Pastors’ Conference, Chairman of the Executive Committee (the most influential committee in the convention), and a 7-member committee to restructure the entire convention–many felt I was unworthy to serve as President. As one of the top 100 churches giving to the Cooperative Program that year, as well as our church investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in other mission endeavors, plus being in the top 10 churches in baptisms over the past few years, I was regarded as not worthy to serve our denomination in this capacity.
- http://www.betweensundays.com/disappointment-with-hope/
June 10, 2008 at 9:22 am
Motion Meeting 1 (Tuesday morning)
1. A motion to change the SBC bylaws so that, to avoid a conflict of interest, no SBC entity president or the president of the SBC Executive Committee can serve as SBC president.
2. A motion to change the SBC Constitution to state that churches which have female senior pastors are not in friendly cooperation with the convention.
3. A motion to receive a love offering at the annual meeting for Indiana flood victims. The offering would be channeled through the Indiana Baptist State Convention.
4. A motion to make the SBC annual meeting more child and family friendly.
5. A motion to post, alongside the American flag, the flag of each branch of the Armed Forces.
6. A motion asking the Executive Committee to re-evaluate the SBC’s relationship with the Baptist World Alliance.
- http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=133&title=6+motions+introduced
June 10, 2008 at 9:25 am
Timmy,
Do you find it odd that the language of dealing with female pastors always seems to be female “senior pastors”…as if female pastors of any kind were allowable? Oh wait, we just call them “minister” or “director”.
Jason
June 10, 2008 at 9:42 am
Jason,
I think the issue is leadership that implies spiritual authority (teaching and ruling) that Scripture reserves for qualified men only. That said, women can have significant roles in ministry, as it has been argued that the backbone of many churches are the women in the church. I think the distinction of “senior pastor” compared to other roles in ministry is intended to separate leadership roles that include spiritual authority and those that do not. But then again, I may be totally off on what the motion is about.
Your thoughts?
June 10, 2008 at 9:47 am
Timmy,
I did not mean to imply that women were disallowed from ministry altogether or that women were unimportant in any way in the life of the church. Of course that is ridiculous.
I just find it odd that language of women pastors in the SBC is always centered around “senior pastor”. Of course, in Scripture we have no such office as “senior” pastor…and that all the pastors must be males. We all know that teaching responsibilities and authority is not limited to only the senior pastor, but is carried through all pastors since they all teach and lead and have authority.
I just find it odd that we seem to frame the issue in a way that opens the door for female pastors, but not senior pastor. There are several SBC churches in my association with female youth pastors (some are called directors, some pastors/ministers). Now, I know there is some dispute on this issue, but do we really believe that the only “pastor” that Scripture refers to is the “senior pastor”??
I think we need to be more clear on this issue. “Senior pastor” language confuses the issue, IMO. In fact, a friend of mine has argued that women pastors are ok along these same lines…because the other pastors fall under the authority of the male senior pastor, they can have female pastors. I just think that is missing the point of the scriptural mandate, don’t you?
Jason
June 10, 2008 at 9:49 am
BTW, I am sure I would agree with the motion made this morning….but every time I hear the phrase “senior pastor” as opposed to “pastor” within the context of women in ministry it starts this debate afresh in my mind.
June 10, 2008 at 10:13 am
Jason,
Well, I am not a big fan of the “senior pastor” language to boot. It leads one to believe that other pastors cannot exercise or execute their duties that would involve shepherding, leading, feeding, etc. While it may simply be a matter of semantics, I would prefer “lead pastor” or something like that. The “senior” language sounds too much like a corporation (as well as “the executive pastor”).
I agree that there should be more clarity on this issue. Scripture reveals the offices of elder/pastor and deacon and does not difference between classes of elders/pastors.
June 10, 2008 at 10:33 am
I agree with your thoughts.
Sorry I digressed from the topic of the motion…but it is something I have been thinking a lot about considering the churches around us with which we cooperate.
There are several churches that we work with quite well in our community (events, services, etc.) but this has become a talking point issue among some of us because 1 of the churches has female pastors on staff (but sees no problem since they are under the authority of the male senior pastor). Tough stuff.
Sorry to hijack the discussion.
Jason
June 10, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Motions for Meeting 2 (Tuesday afternoon)
(Ben Cole) Request X-Com design and implement a standardized form of reporting for all six seminaries to the Convention
(Eric Williams) BF&M article 1 on inerrancy: HCSB the translators and other scholars do not believe that verses ought to be there; motion not to allow HCSB or any translation to be used in podium in any convention meetings
(Barrot Lamp) Reintroduce one in 06, limit of service/tenure and lengths of term limits for all trustees and officers
(Ben Smith) Study the possibilities and changes for the week of convention to accommodate to do mission work; creatively consider how week of convention be used to educate, encourage, and equip ministers through seminars, lectures, etc.
(Rodney Fry) All SBTS seminaries provide all SBTS students enrolled in internet classes be given same fees as those on campus students
(Bill Sanderson) Declare that Broadway Baptist Church of Ft. Worth, TX not to be in friendly cooperation with SBC
(Alan Thompson) 80 different languages spoken in CA churches; all must affirm BF&M2000; it is available only in English and Spanish
June 10, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Jason,
Your questions are not hijacking, brother.
This is an issue that needs to be addressed. Should women you minister to youth be called “pastors” (elders)? What about ministers of music? Children ministers? etc. Furthermore, when women come to speak to an issue, is it possible that what they are saying/testifying could be turned into “preaching”? I’ve heard some women make announcements that sounded almost like a three-point sermon!
June 10, 2008 at 1:26 pm
The following morning motions were recommended to the Executive Committee:
A motion to change the SBC bylaws so that, to avoid a conflict of interest, no SBC entity president or the president of the SBC Executive Committee can serve as SBC president.
A motion to change the SBC Constitution to state that churches which have female senior pastors are not in friendly cooperation with the convention.
June 10, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Frank Page’s message focused on two things:
1. A Call to Repentance (the problem is with ME)
2. A Call for Great Commission Resurgence
Where have we heard this before?
June 10, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Bobby Welch’s vision of the SBC’s partnership with “like-minded brothers and sisters” across the evangelical landscape is certainly different from the anti-ecumenical “Baptist Identity” cohort. Did someone forget to send Bobby the BI memo?
June 10, 2008 at 1:47 pm
BF&M article 1 on inerrancy: HCSB the translators and other scholars do not believe that verses ought to be there; motion not to allow HCSB or any translation to be used in podium in any convention meetings Emphasis mine.
Uhm…is it all going to be Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek? Which text? I’d support this just to watch the “Theme Interpretations.”
June 10, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Are we getting back together with the BWA?? I have always thought our divorce from them was a mistake
June 10, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Marty,
You know, and I know, there is only one authorized version of the Bible. Stetzer calls the HCSB, the “Hard Core Southern Baptist” Bible. Great to hear from you man.
June 10, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Jim,
I am not aware who all is behind the BWA reconciliation. I am curious about how this will pan out. I know that Bill Wagner is for a new partnership with BWA.
June 10, 2008 at 2:13 pm
* Nominating Speeches for SBC President *
Junior Hill nominating speech for Frank Cox
1. His convictions (theological)
2. His generous giving (CP; 47th in entire SBC)
3. His leadership ability (experience and proven)
4. His friendly and lovable spirit (humble and approachable)
John Marshall nominating speech for Avery Willis
1. Revival
2. Discipleship (Masterlife)
3. Cooperative Program (lifelong commitment)
4. Great Commission (missions strategist)
“one of us . . .”
new challenge to build on Conservative Resurgence
Wade Burleson nominating speech for Bill Wagner
1. 50 years worked for Southern Baptists
2. pastored nine churches, seven which he planted
3. 30 years worked with IMB, 18 as missionary in Austria
4. 1995 called to be professor of evangelism and missions at GGTS
5. author of several books regarding Great Commission
current president of Olivet University
6. “one of ours . . .”
7. there has never been a president as a small church pastor, mission strategist, or missionary: Bill Wagner represents all of them
8. he understands the world around us
Alan Stoddard nominating speech for Les Puryear
1. continue to practice involvement of new people invited to table
2. reach out to all ethnic minorities and work to make sure they are seated at the table
3. he will be able to relate to small church pastors, who make up of 80% of our churches
Don Roberts nominating speech for Wiley Drake
1. grown as a Christian man and example
2. man with conservative convictions
3. family man
4. motion to boycott Disney
Ted Traylor nominating speech for Johnny Hunt
1. a man with a heart for the nations (3.3 million to missions; 78 churches planted; 165 people called into ministry; 149 serving in missions; Acts 1:8 leader)
2. a man with a heart for the next generation (look around you - 7,000 here; Hunt invested in 25,000 at Timothy-Barnabas conference); young leaders need him as president
3. Hunt is a uniter; will build bridges; forge us to a hopeful future
“you know him . . . you have heard him . . . now vote for him”
June 10, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Wait…I thought Hunt wasn’t a fan of “building bridges”. Hmm.
I do know him…I HAVE heard him…but I would not vote for him. He is not a voice for young leaders. He is a voice for the good ol boy network.
Now…I don’t know who I would vote for…but I know for whom I would not vote.
June 10, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Motion Meeting 3
(Jeff Burgess?) guidelines for anyone serving in agencies, boards, etc.
1. give evidence of having received Jesus
2. be member of SBC in full cooperation
3. be in good standing in local congregations
4. agree to abstain from alcoholic beverages
5. agree with Baptist Faith & Message
(Wiley Drake) convention request X-Com to do study on how we as a Convention can implement article 14 and 15 in BF&M, especially cooperation withing other various denominations
(Andy Perriman) LifeWay be authorized and funded to give churches capabitlities to conference and teleconference their church events through their website
(Scott Wilfong?) amend article 10 section B of bylaws regarding no majority vote on first vote for SBC president
(Harold Phillips) all colleges and universities and seminaries be responsible to teach creation science as recorded in Genesis (report to budget committee)
(James Julian) the SBC charging inflated prices for tools and resources for messages, addresses, etc.; reduce the cost!
June 10, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Ah! Alcohol makes its way back in the motions and resolutions for the umpteenth year. Everyone knows that the reason we are decreasing in baptisms is because we have too many wine-drinking pastors.
That darn “cultural liberalism”!
June 10, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Just changing the course of this thread a bit, but I am bothered by the creation of this new Hall of Faith. The giving of awards for ministry of any kind demonstrates hubris on the part of the party giving the award, that is, they are acting as if they have the ability to discern who has been the most faithful to the ministerial call or who has been simply the best at ‘their’ ministry. It may also reveal pride on the part of the one receiving the award.
All Christian ministry is the property of Christ Jesus and all involved in ministry are simple stewards of said ministry. I am the pastor of Mt. Vernon Baptist Church and I have been called to fulfill this ministry, but I do not own this ministry, God does. He leads me in this ministry by His Word and by His Spirit. He is in charge of this ministry, not me. Anything good that happens in this ministry and any faithfulness I have in this ministry are because of the Lord. Left to myself to perform this ministry, I would mess it up something terrible! Since He is the head of this ministry (I realize I’ve used the words, ‘this ministry’ a bit too much) how can I claim any award from anyone for it except from the Lord Himself? And, why would I consider giving an award to anyone else for ministerial work and take upon myself the mantle that only Christ can own? This is very man-centered.
It’s time to stop applauding our efforts because we don’t really know if there is anything to applaud.
June 10, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Message by David Dockery
3 John 4
“no greater joy . . . than to hear my children walking in the truth”
1. Convictional and Confessional Beliefs
2. Collaborative and Cooperative Service
“We need to ask hard questions about regenerate church membership; the Christian faith is not mere moralism; faith in faith; some self-help theory. It is the manifestation of God’s revealed truth in his Holy Word.”
We a renewed commitment to teach the truth!
There is a place in the SBC a fear against a commitment to confessional faith. It is a misunderstanding of our baptist heritage to deny a confessional faith.
“There is no need to construct a false dichotomy between a living faith and a confessional faith.”
The failure to prioritize the apostle’s call is the source of confusion in Baptist life today.
We need a renewed commitment to our confessional faith that will not given into the spirit of defeat. Then we will found faithful to walk in the truth.
We need a SBC characterized by collaborate, compassionate, and cooperative spirit that exhibits loving the truth. We need a renewed spirit of collaborative cooperation. No longer can a culture of homogeneity or programmatic function keep us together.
We are to serve together as coworkers in the truth. We can and we must cooperate and collaborate together because we trust the same Savior, we have received the same Spirit, we have received a common baptism, promised the same eternal destiny, and one day will enjoy the same new heavens and new earth.
We find our shared hope in the good news of the gospel itself. A gospel revealed and authenticated in Holy Scripture, focused on Jesus–his substitutionary atonement for our sins and victorious resurrection. The Christian faith stands or falls on this glorious gospel.
The first generation believe and proclaims the gospel;
The second generation benefits from the gospel;
The third generation substitutes for the gospel.
Much is at stake, including the health of the SBC, and the eternal lostness of individuals. We need both collaboration cooperation and convictional confessionalism.
Carl F.H. Henry: Our witness to the world will be stronger when the church is united; a cantankerous spirit results in an unnecessary fragmentation . . .
June 10, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Reporting from inside the convention hall…
Dockery’s message was spot on. Unfortunately about half or more of those who had been here for the motions left and are just now creeping back in for more motions.
June 10, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Presidential Vote Results
7,196 Total Messengers
5,856 casting ballot (81.38%)
Hunt 3,100 52.94%
Cox 1,286 21.96%
Willis 962 16.43%
Wagner 255 4.35%
Puryear 188 3,21%
Drake 45 .77%
20 votes disallowed
Hunt is new president of the SBC.
June 10, 2008 at 3:28 pm
It appears Johnny Hunt has blown everyone away in the first election with 52% of the vote. Over 3,000 votes with Frank Cox getting about 1200. WOW!
June 10, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Motion Meeting 4
(Regina Shrock) Equipment for hearing impaired
(William Lausch?) Candidate nominated, either a picture be shown via video screen or nominee presented on stage at time of nomination
(Rick Reeder) Ask people to consider offering financial help for his church
(Wiley Drake) Convention request x-Comm to lead convention to repentance and renewed commitment to holiness and godly living
June 10, 2008 at 3:35 pm
“Blast from the past” meeting (2005) . . .
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=21063
June 10, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Anecdotal Observation from the P&P research team:
Messenger Total in 08 Indy: 7,196
Messenger Total in 07 San Anton: 8,618
Messenger Total in 06 Greensboro: 8,961
Messenger Total in 05 Nashville: 11,641
June 10, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Patterson Report (SWBTS)
“We have been napping, but we are waking up.”
“You will find no wimps at SWBTS . . .”
Come visit us as vultures meet their disappointment . . .
June 10, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Hunt’s campaign commercial from his assistant, Jim Law (sent out several weeks ago):
“Greetings to you in the wonderful name of Jesus! I want to talk with you of a recent development of which you may already be aware. Many of you know that Pastor Johnny Hunt has been asked numerous times over the past 10-12 years to allow his name to be placed in nomination as President of the Southern Baptist Convention. Even after much encouragement from many of his peers and friends, he has never felt led to do so. In recent days after being asked again and after much prayer and seeking the Lord, he has agreed to allow that to happen at this year’s convention. There are other strong candidates that will be doing the same. However, I believe with all my heart that Dr. Hunt will provide the best leadership for all of us in two specific areas. Those two areas being change and a bright future for us as well as the denomination we all love but for which we are deeply concerned.
You may say, “Jim, I agree but what can I do?” I want to encourage you to make every effort to be in Indianapolis, IN on June 10-11, 2008 and cast your vote for Dr. Hunt as our next SBC president. The election will be on Tuesday afternoon, June 10th. I also encourage you to bring as many delegates as you are allowed by the Convention to do the same. Finally, would you exercise whatever influence you may have with other Pastors who do not know Pastor Johnny like you do and assure them that a vote for Pastor Johnny will be a vote for a different and bright future? Encourage them to be at the Convention and/or send delegates to represent them.
We have all been the beneficiary of Dr. Hunt’s investment of time, instruction and encouragement. Now, it is time that we invest in him. I trust you will do your part, my brother. We are counting on you.”
Looks like it worked! Quite different results than from the SBC Voices online poll:
- http://sbcvoices.com/sbc-president-poll-2008/
June 10, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Wiley came in the same place in the poll and in real life. Those 20 disallowed votes must have been for Art Rogers.
“We’ve been napping…,” says President Patterson. That’s almost enough to get out the old quill and ink.
Almost.
Thanks for your anectodal figures on recent attendance trends. Looks like it mirrors our cultural influence.
June 10, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Dr. Land has identified the four horseman of the modern apocalypse.
The last was radical Islamic jihadism.
June 10, 2008 at 6:43 pm
If I were there, I’d be voting for Doug Moulkey for 2nd vp. Great speach.
June 10, 2008 at 6:45 pm
7,242 messengers registered so far.
June 10, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Tim:
Great comments. I could just stay in my room and read your blog and probably know more of what is going on than by being here! I am really intrigued by the presidential election. I expected Johnny (”Unite-us”) Hunt to win, but on a second ballot. This makes me wonder about the influence of the blogosphere this year. The spirit here has been great. Those expecting a fight must be disappointed.
June 10, 2008 at 7:45 pm
A few people commenting on the SBC Today blog (which endorsed Cox) seem to be insinuating that Ted Traylor misrepresented the CP record of FB Woodstock. That would seem to be a pretty simple thing to verify. Any ideas on what he said that may not have been accurate?
June 10, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I guess one of the positives from this is that the 10% CP litmus test doesn’t seem to be catching on. Personally, I would rather see churches get more directly involved in supporting missions where a higher percentage of $ would actually get to the field and the givers have a deeper connection with the missionaries. HMM. Does that mean I’m not a true Southern Baptist?
June 10, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Sean Post,
Sorry for not responding quickly to your post. I was trying to follow the conference schedule with the events as they were unfolding. I, too, share in your concern regarding the “Hall of Faith.” But mind you, we are also the same denomination that erected a statue of Billy Graham at the front of headquarters. I appreciate Billy Graham and all, but even he has fumbled the gospel in his late years.
Apparently, the Corinthian church wrestled with the same temptation to make a Hall of Faith. The big three, Paul, Cephas, and Apollos, were such superstars in the Corinthian celebrity culture that factions arose between the church over who belong to who.
The first time this was brought up Paul was quick to say that he was glad that he did not baptize any so that they would not say they were baptized in his name (1 Cor. 1:10-17).
The second time it was brought up, Paul said that such jealousy and strife was the result of spiritual immaturity (babes who still sucking on milk rather than eating meat). He responds that they are but servants fulfilling the task God had assigned them, but it was *God* who brought the increase (e.g. gave the results). So he concludes that he, Apollos, and Peter “are not anything” (1 Cor. 3:1-9).
Paul is continually calling them to consider their calling so that would not boast in their calling but boast in the Lord (1 Cor. 1:26-31), that everything they did was for God’s glory (1 Cor. 10:31).
So with that said, the “Hall of Faith”, in my mind, (1) reflects much of the celebrity culture we have created, (2) reflects much of the immaturity of the Corinthian church, (3) detracts from the glory that belongs solely to Jesus, and (4) confuses who is actually responsible for bringing the increase.
Perhaps there is no more timely word than from Paul himself who asked the Corinthians:
“What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?” (1 Cor. 4:7)
Then again, it was Jesus who said,
“So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty” (Luke 17:10)
June 10, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Eight Motions Passed
Two to the 2009 annual meeting.
A motion by William Sanderson of Hephzibah Baptist Church in Wendell, N.C., asking that Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas., be declared not to be in friendly cooperation with the SBC. (There were no messengers from the church registered in Indianapolis).
A motion by Ben Smith of First Baptist Church of Adel, Ga., asking the Executive Committee “study the possibilities and recommend any bylaw changes need[ed] to allow for the week of the convention to also accommodate other events that support the work and mission of Southern Baptist[s].”
Three to the Executive Committee:
A motion by Benjamin Cole of Emmanuel Baptist Church of Enid, Okla., requesting that the Executive Committee make a standardized form of reporting for the SBC seminaries in the Book of Reports.
A motion by Barrett Lampp of Thomasville Road Baptist Church in Tallahassee, Fla., limiting entity trustees to only one term.
A motion by Jeff Purvis of First Baptist Church in Pevely, Mo., that SBC bylaws be amended to require that people who serve on boards and commission “agree to abstain from drinking alcoholic beverages and using any other recreational drugs,” agree with the BF&M and be a member of a CP-giving church.
One to LifeWay Christian Resources:
A motion by Alan Thompson of First Baptist Church Clairemont in San Diego, Calif., asking that the Executive Committee translate the Baptist Faith & Message into the top five languages of the SBC.
Two Ruled Out of Order:
A motion by Eric Williams of Long Prairie Baptist Church in Belle Rive, Ill., asking that messengers not allow the HCSB “or any translation that questions the validity of any Scripture passage or verse” to be used in any SBC publication or at the podium of any SBC meeting.
A motion by Rodney A. Fry of First Baptist Church in Lead Hill, Ark., asking that all seminary Internet classes charge the same for tuition and fees that on-campus students receive.
Source: http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=158&title=Messengers+approve+action+on+8+motions
June 10, 2008 at 8:50 pm
One positive way of ensuring young Southern Baptists stay out of leadership positions and continue the spiral downhill: erect extra-biblical standards that supersede the sufficiency of Scripture as in the case of Jeff Purvis’ motion regarding alcohol. It’s not the moderationists that will be eliminated, but the abstentionists who refuse to bind the consciences and remove the seats at the table by arbitrary standards. If we are going to go this route, why wasn’t their a motion against mullet hairdo’s in the 80’s? Hair below the ears and the appearance of rebellion certainly was something that should not have been tolerated.
June 10, 2008 at 9:29 pm
The Irony of 2006 and 2008 SBC Presidential Elections
Back in 2006, many of you will remember Time Mag, USA Today, and other news outlets quick to report the influence of SBC bloggers contributing to the election of unknown candidate Frank Page. For instance:
1. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1204271,00.html
2. http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-06-03-southern-baptists-election_N.htm
Fast forward to 2008. The SBC blogosphere has changed substantially. In 06, Marty Duren, Steve McCoy, Joe Thorn, Art Rogers, Wade Burleson, and many others were weighing in. For instance, see my compilation of blogposts from 06:
http://timmybrister.com/2006/06/12/2006-sbc-greensboro-convention-compilation-post/
None of these men aforementioned are blogging today, at least not regarding SBC issues. Relatively new bloggers have recently joined together to form group blogs, as seen in SBCToday, SBCImpact, SBCWitness and SBCOutpost. One in particular that seemed to be swinging a big stick is the new “Baptist Identity” movement spear-headed by Bart Barber and the SBCToday guys. All of them came out publicly endorsing Frank Cox for president of the SBC. One blogger was confident enough to deem Cox already “the next president of the SBC.”
http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2008/06/frank-cox-an-in.html
The SBC Voices had Cox dominating the competition, beating Johnny Hunt 340 to 91. By all the press coverage, interviews, blog endorsements, and online polling, it seemed right in the minds of the BI guys and those in the new world of SBC blogging that Frank Cox could not be beaten.
That is, until this afternoon. Hunt ended up not only winning the presidency, but he did so convincingly–and on the first ballot. The only blogger that I can recall endorsing Johnny Hunt was the lonesome Nathan A. Finn.
So I suppose there will be no press conference this year where the incoming president will owe a sense of gratitude to SBC bloggers (unless Hunt chooses to credit Nathan for single-handedly having more blog influence than all other SBC bloggers combined). To the contrary, this presidential election was in spite of SBC bloggers.
Where the lesson in 06 was anecdotal to the rise of blogging in SBC life and the influence found therein, the lesson in 08 is anecdotal to the apparent insignificance of blogging in SBC life. Just because some blogs draw the attention and ear to merit a long stream of comments or appeal to self-attributed notoriety, we should in no sense deceive ourselves equivocating comments into votes. As my friend Steve McCoy said when he shut down the most influential SBC blog (Missional Baptist Blog), our goal should be that our churches are louder than our blogs. In the end, that is the irony of 2008. Hunt has spent his time and energy investing in his church and people, and to his credit, built a network that is broad and deep in the SBC. He may not have had the endorsements online or won the online presidential poll, but in the end, he won the only place where it actually mattered.
Maybe that should be a lesson for us all who are tempted to submit comments rather than submitting our lives in service to one another. Baptist Identity, Joshua Convergence, Memphis Declaration, and the next fad on the SBC block will not be remembered, but eternity will account for our lives spent in the two things that endure forever: the Word of God and souls of men. “Young leaders” will not be found with those who have the esteem of bloggers or those who comment, but the esteem of unknown saints whose anonymity is a fresh reminder of the kind of life we need to embrace.
Today, churches and ministers were louder than blogs, and you know, it’s supposed to be that way after all.
June 10, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I went into the convention hall this afternoon honestly not knowing who I would vote for. Very reluctantly, I cast my vote with the majority, but only because Hunt was the most known quantity to me and there were aspects of the other lesser-known candidates (at least to me) that concerned me.
I honestly don’t know how much influence the bloggers really had in 2006. I do know that in 2008 there definitely is a sense of blog-fatigue that has been noted by others as of late. I, for one, welcome that fatigue (at least for a while).
Timmy, I share your frustration with yet another alcohol amendment. When will Southern Baptists get as fired up about the gospel as they do Budweiser. This coming from a complete tee-totaler who can’t stand the alcohol industry. One can only hope there’s not another resolution on this issue tomorrow morning.
June 10, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Johnny Hunt on SBC Decline and Young Leaders:
“We believe that there’s a need for a radical change and radical leadership to turn the tide in our denomination. … We’ve been declining as a denomination. You can’t turn something around until you stop the tide in the direction it’s going.
Hunt said one of his goals is “being able to inspire the younger generation that’s coming behind me to buy in and then step up to the plate and support” the SBC.
Source: http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=154&title=Hunt+hopes+to+inspire+younger+generation
June 10, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Matt,
I had several friends texting me regarding who to vote for, and I did not feel like that I could give them an answer. That’s not to say that none of these eight men I appreciate and have respect for, but that I have reservations that would give me pause.
I am curious to see how Hunt will carry himself as president of the SBC. In years past when he did not hold a position in leadership of the SBC, he was very polemic and antagonistic. I want to believe him when he talks about building bridges, reaching out to young SBCers, being an encourager, etc. It would be great to see something happen where it could be arranged for Hunt to meet with those whom he has written off in the past as a beginning of new things, such as collaboration and cooperation as Dockery so eloquently presented in his challenge.
The alcohol ordeal is just so lame. The day we want to start addressing real problems in the SBC and stop playing these silly games of motions and resolutions on alcohol would be the beginning of “stopping the tide in the direction it’s going”, to use Hunt’s words.
June 10, 2008 at 10:14 pm
I think it was the talk of reaching out to younger SBCers that did it for me, and I know he’s had a discipleship program at his church that people say good things about. This is my first SBC (hard to believe), and it’s not like I didn’t know this before, but it really is eye opening to see the insanely and inordinately high percentage of senior citizens (or close to it) at this thing. And that’s not to say I don’t welcome them. But where are the young people? Home or vacationing because of years (decades) of being told to know their role and shut their mouths.
And does the SBC repent of anything? I guess we’ll find out tomorrow, but I for one am so tired of hearing about how great we’re doing at everything. Anyway, I’m done ranting and going to bed.
June 10, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Matt,
Do pray about the proceedings tomorrow. It is likely that the resolution on regenerate church membership will come out not including the language of repentance nor calling for Convention employees to stay out of the business of local churches who want to pursue integrity in church membership. If that happens, Tom will proceed with his recommendation for an amendment, and others are expected to speak in favor of his amendment.
The issue of honesty and humility is before us as a convention of churches. I hope that we find ourselves postured and purposed to honor Christ our Head.
June 11, 2008 at 6:36 am
The resolutions are out. No repentance language, nothing about Convention employees.
There is, however, a resolution on affirming the use of the term “Christmas” in public life. Also one regarding Israel’s 60th anniversary, celebrating growing ethnic diversity, encouraging political engagement, CA’s gay marriage, Planned Parenthood, and a couple more.
June 11, 2008 at 6:51 am
Matt, you ask “Where are the young people?” Well, let’s see. Perhaps they’ve used up all of their conference funds on Ligonier, T4G, Desiring God, Shepherd’s, 9Marks, Founders, etc. I’m really not trying to be mean spirited but, after listening online to several of the messages from the Pastor’s conference, I wouldn’t want to waste time there. Other than to be present to cast a few votes, I think the whole experience would be shallow and unsatisfying.
June 11, 2008 at 7:10 am
Matt,
Thanks for filling us in. For those who want to see what the resolution on regenerate church membership looks like, here it is:
On Regenerate Church Membership and Church Member Restoration
WHEREAS, The ideal of a regenerate church membership has long been and remains a cherished Baptist principle, with Article VI of the Baptist Faith and Message describing the church as a “local congregation of baptized believers”; and
WHEREAS, A New Testament church is composed only of those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word, becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, the local church’s only Lord, by grace through faith (John 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9); and
WHEREAS, Local associations, state conventions, and the Southern Baptist Convention compile statistics reported by the churches to make decisions for the future; and
WHEREAS, The Scriptures admonish us to seek to restore any professed brother or sister in Christ who has strayed from the truth and is in sin (Matthew 18:15-35, Galatians 6:1); now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Indianapolis, Indiana, June 10-11, 2008, urge churches to maintain a regenerate membership by acknowledging the necessity of spiritual regeneration and Christ’s lordship for all members; and be it further
RESOLVED, That we humbly urge our churches to maintain accurate membership rolls for the purpose of fostering ministry and accountability among all members of the congregation; and be it finally
RESOLVED, That we humbly urge the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention and their pastors to implement a plan to minister to, counsel, and restore wayward church members based upon the commands and principles given in Scripture (Matthew 18:15-35; 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15; Galatians 6:1; James 5:19-20).
Source: http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=165&title=Committee+presents+membership%2Frestoration+resolution
June 11, 2008 at 7:12 am
Tom’s resolution speaks as follows:
Resolution on Integrity in Church Membership
Whereas the Baptist Faith and Message states that the Scriptures are “the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried” (Article 1); and
Whereas life in a local church should be characterized by loving discipline as the Bible teaches in passages like Matthew 18:15-18, 1 Corinthians 5 and Titus 3:10-11; and
Whereas the 2007 Southern Baptist Convention Annual Church Profiles indicate that there are 16,266,920 members in Southern Baptist churches; and
Whereas those same profiles indicate that only 6,148,868 of those members attend a primary worship service of their church in a typical week; and
Whereas the ideal of a regenerate church membership has long been and remains a cherished Baptist principle as described in Article VI of the Baptist Faith and Message; and
Whereas the significance of believers’ baptism tends to be lost when churches that practice it fail to exercise loving care for all their members; therefore, be it
RESOLVED that the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Indianapolis, Indiana, June 10-11, 2008, urge Southern Baptists to repent of our failure to maintain responsible church membership, and be it further
RESOLVED that we urge the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention to repent of the widespread failure among us to obey Jesus Christ in the practice of lovingly correcting wayward church members (Matthew 18:15-18), and be it further
RESOLVED that we plead with pastors and church leaders to lead their churches to study and implement our Lord’s teachings on this essential church practice, and be it further
RESOLVED that we encourage denominational servants to support and encourage churches that seek to recover and implement our Savior’s teachings on church discipline, especially when such efforts result in the reduction in the number of members that are reported in those churches, and be it finally
RESOLVED that we commit to pray for our churches as they seek to honor the Lord Jesus Christ through reestablishing integrity to church membership and to the reporting of statistics in the Annual Church Profile.
Source: http://www.founders.org/blog/2008/04/2008-resolution-on-integrity-in-church.html
June 11, 2008 at 7:14 am
For info’s sake, here’s the Yarnell/Barber resolution:
WHEREAS, The Baptist Faith Message asserts that the Scriptures are “the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried” (Article I); and
WHEREAS, A New Testament church is composed only of those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word, becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, the local church’s only Lord, by grace through faith (Matthew 18:18-20; John 3:5); and
WHEREAS, A New Testament church is formed through covenant by a group of Christians intentionally gathering in the name of Jesus Christ and under his lordship (Matthew 18:19-20; Colossians 2:10, 19); and
WHEREAS, Baptism of only believers by immersion in the Triune name is the only proper means of entering a local New Testament church and is thus the indispensable beginning of regenerate church membership (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 2:41); and
WHEREAS, Regenerate church membership is preserved by the practice of redemptive church discipline according to our Lord’s command (Matthew 18:15-18, 1 Corinthians 5; Titus 3:10-11); and
WHEREAS, The Lord’s Supper is to be celebrated in a worthy manner as a memorial of our Lord’s atoning death, providing continuing evidence of regenerate church membership (1 Corinthians 11:23-29); and
WHEREAS, Regenerate church membership is necessary for the responsible practice of congregational church government (Matthew 18:17; Acts 6:3-4; 15:22); and
WHEREAS, The local church has been commissioned to make disciples of all nations through proclaiming the Word, by going, baptizing and teaching all things that Christ commanded, thus propagating regenerate church membership through evangelism (Matthew 28:16-20); and
WHEREAS, The New Testament ideal of regenerate church membership has long been a cherished Baptist principle as described by the Baptist Faith and Message (Article VI); now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED, That the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Indianapolis, Indiana, June 10-11, 2008, humbly urge our beloved churches to renew their commitment to regenerate church membership by acknowledging the necessity of spiritual regeneration and Christ’s lordship for all members of local churches; and be it further
RESOLVED, That we humbly urge our churches to renew their commitment to the congregation as a covenantal assembly entered only by immersion of those who evidence a credible profession of faith in Christ; and be it further
RESOLVED, That we humbly urge our churches to renew the practice of redemptive church discipline, reviewing their membership rolls and kindling fraternal kinship and accountability among all members of the congregation; and be it further
RESOLVED, That we humbly urge our churches to celebrate the Lord’s Supper as a meaningful memorial celebration according to the New Testament, and develop congregants capable of responsible self-governance; and be it finally
RESOLVED, That we humbly encourage all of our beloved Southern Baptist churches to seek to fulfill the New Testament ideal of regenerate church membership for the glory of God, the edification of His people, and the more effective evangelization of the lost.
June 11, 2008 at 7:22 am
UNBELIEVABLE. The Resolutions Committee stripped out over half of the resolution from either Tom or Yarnell/Barber. Any kind of amendments will require the insertion of numerous paragraphs–paragraphs with the resolutions committed seem none to resolved about. What this resolution by the committee represents is a proverbial hat tip to the debate and as it stands contributes nothing to the cause of integrity in church membership or the call to repentance or the need for recovering our Baptist distinctives–all of which baptist historians and theologians stand in agreement.
June 11, 2008 at 7:25 am
Total messenger update: 7,249.
That is, of course, 0.004% of the 16 million members of the SBC. Because we all know that we are 16 million strong . . .
June 11, 2008 at 7:36 am
Timmy, thanks for your updates. This seems to be THE blog when it comes to “up to the minute” convention news.
The resolution is disappointing but to be expected. In my nearly 20 years as an SBC member it’s become obvious to me that appearance and reputation are cherished above substance in our convention. Pointing out the obvious and calling ourselves to repentance would sacrifice what we cherish so highly and start the dreaded “whose to blame” questioning.
The battle is still where it has always been. With real people on the local church level. With that we can be encouraged.
June 11, 2008 at 7:36 am
Left out of the Resolutions Committee Resolution on Regenerate Church Membership
In the “Whereas” portion:
1. No mention of the damage to Christ’s church by unholy lives of church members
2. No mention of exactly how many of SBC church members bear no visible evidence of regeneration
In the “Resolved” portion:
1. No mentioning of the Annual Church Profile or its statistics
2. No call to repentance for our failure in this area
3. No call for denominational servants to stay out of the business of churches seeking to restore integrity in church membership
4. No call to pray for our churches in this matter
June 11, 2008 at 7:40 am
Dr. Page in prayer over the Convention:
“we have been haughty, arrogant, and sinful . . . a call to repentance, Lord, is your call to our hearts today . . . we pray for repentance to come into our homes, our churches, and our lives”
“let us present Christ clearly and beautifully for the world to see”
Excellent.
BUT, these things Dr. Page is praying for are precisely the things left out of the resolution on regenerate church membership
June 11, 2008 at 7:46 am
Timmy, did you hear how the last video clip just ended? “Every number has a story.” Unless, of course, that number is 16 million.
June 11, 2008 at 7:46 am
Tom Ascol’s planned amendments are as follows:
RESOLVED that we urge the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention to repent of the any failure among us to live up to our professed commitment to regenerate church membership and any failure to obey Jesus Christ in the practice of lovingly correcting wayward church members (Matthew 18:15-18), and be it further
RESOLVED that we humbly encourage denominational servants to support and encourage churches that seek to recover and implement our Savior’s teachings on church discipline, even if such efforts result in the reduction in the number of members that are reported in those churches, and be it finally
Not sure if these amendments or others will be changed due to the weakness of the resolution coming out of the committee
June 11, 2008 at 7:47 am
Bill,
Yeah, that’s right. That’s where I got the title for my research on regenerate church membership which I also entitled “every number has a story.” Unfortunately, we refuse to tell their stories. Denominational triumphalism leaves no room for stories that don’t fit the program.
June 11, 2008 at 7:47 am
Timmy-
I have to gently disagree. It is completely and thoroughly BELIEVABLE.
Your thoughts about pre-Greensboro and pre-Indy relating to the influence of blogs was interesting. A not insignificant insight is that all the blogging that took place pre-Greensboro had to do with SBC reform. Frank Page’s election (benefiting from whatever blog weight one chooses to assign) was seen as an outgrowth of a growing discontent with the “anointed annual candidate” and the “CP resurrection” being driven by the State execs and the Executive Committee.
This year, this is no reform movement to speak of. The vast majority of the vocal ones have long since given up trying to reform the SBC. The singular place where I disagree with Steve McCoy is that the SBC won’t be changed as our churches change–it will be abandoned. (Well, it will not be changed for the better.) The reason blogs like SBC Today, Peter Lumpkins, et al, do not have the weight needed for change is because they are not offering any. Nobody is motivated by passion to keep the status quo.
Even the Church Membership resolution (and I would have voted for Tom’s each year including this one) speaks much more to how near we are to the end of denominational existence than a hope for renewal. Who could have imagined a baptist denom having to go on record as to what it means to be a church member? And this after 25 years of resurging? It tells a tale that we have to continually define and redefine who we are to smaller and smaller gatherings each year, while not a single resolution thus far (that I’ve read) has anything to do with positively impacting culture, building bridges to those in need of Christ or, of course, repentance.
June 11, 2008 at 7:58 am
Resolutions Approved from the Resolutions Committee
1. A resolution “On Celebrating the Growing Ethnic Diversity of the Southern Baptist Convention.”
The resolution says messengers “express our appreciation to those entities currently seeking to reflect a balanced representation of our ethnic diversity in denominational service” and that “we encourage all entities of the Southern Baptist Convention to strive toward a balanced representation of our ethnic diversity.” The resolution concludes by encouraging “our president and all committees to work with state convention and local associations to identity ethnic leadership” from cooperating SBC churches “to serve on boards, committees, and programs” of the SBC.
2. A resolution “In Celebration of Israel’s 60th Anniversary.”
The resolution says messengers “join in prayer for the peace of Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6-7), calling upon world leaders to renounce the growing tide of anti-Semitism” and that “Southern Baptists express our appreciation and pledge our prayers for Israel, the birthplace of our Lord and a bastion of democracy in the Middle East.”
3. A resolution “On Affirming the Use of the Term ‘Christmas’ in Public Life.”
The resolution says secularism “is a pervasive and aggressive movement” and it denounces efforts by “the American Civil Liberties Union, People for the American Way, and many others” in trying to “remove references to God and Jesus Christ” from the public square. The resolution “encourages believers to be aware of businesses, schools, and all other public institutions in their areas that are removing Christmas as the official designation of the season and to use their influence to restore Christmas to its proper place in the culture.”
4. A resolution “On Political Engagement.”
The resolution urges “all Southern Baptists to participate in the 40/40 Prayer Vigil” being promoted by the North American Mission Board and the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission. The 40/40 emphasis calls on Southern Baptists to pray for “spiritual revival and national renewal” between Sept. 24 and Nov. 2.
The resolution encourages “our churches regularly to teach and preach biblical truth on moral issues and to urge their members to vote according to their believes, convictions, and values.” The resolution also asks all Christians “and particularly those in leadership positions” to “prayerfully seek God’s mind and will and strongly to consider the potential problems of politicizing the church and the pulpit before endorsing candidates.”
5. A resolution “On the California Supreme Court Decision to Allow Same-Sex Marriage.”
The resolution supports a proposed constitutional marriage amendment and states that messengers “wholeheartedly support the people in California who have worked tirelessly to place the referendum on the ballot.” The resolution calls on Southern Baptists and believers everywhere “to pray for the people of California.” It also calls on passage and ratification of a federal marriage amendment. The resolution states that the Bible speaks clearly that marriage is between one man and one woman in passages such as Matthew 19:4-6.
6. A resolution “On Planned Parenthood.”
The resolution notes that Planned Parenthood is the nation’s largest abortion provider and “has launched a massive campaign to mobilize voters this year, planning to raise at least $10 million.” It says messengers “descry the immoral action of Planned Parenthood clinics across America.” Further, the resolution says messengers “encourage the evaluation of candidates for elected office based on their affiliation with Planned Parenthood.”
7. A resolution “In Recognition of the Centennial of Royal Ambassadors.”
The resolution says RAs has educated “at least 2 million boys in biblical missionary principles” and served to win “tens of thousands to faith in Christ.” It says messengers “recognize the historic milestone achieved by the Royal Ambassador organization and give thanks to God for past leaders whose vision and magnificent efforts have led to such long-lasting results.”
Source: http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=166&title=Committee+proposes+9+resolutions
June 11, 2008 at 8:00 am
Darrell Orman, speaking of the blending of the resolutions on regenerate church membership, asked,
“Will the real mother let the resolution live?”
June 11, 2008 at 8:05 am
Timmy, that’s just typical SBC pulpit manipluation tactics. Demonize the dissenters before the debate even starts.
June 11, 2008 at 8:07 am
Resolution #6: Resolution on regenerate church membership (presented by Kevin Smith of Louisville, KY)
Mic 6 Malcolm Yarnell:
Motion to amend: second whereas, which says:
WHEREAS, A New Testament church is composed only of those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word, becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, the local church’s only Lord, by grace through faith (John 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9); and
INSERTION: “which church practices believer’s baptism by immersion, the Lord’s Supper, and church discipline”
June 11, 2008 at 8:09 am
It’s nice to see Dr. Yarnell fighting working for the resolution this year. I am glad that this does not encroach on autonomy!
June 11, 2008 at 8:10 am
Change of heart? Yeah, the autonomy argument isn’t going to fly two years in a row.
June 11, 2008 at 8:10 am
friendly gesture?
Church discipline as an ordinance of the church? When does a command of Christ become one that we can disregard?
June 11, 2008 at 8:11 am
Committee’s Response: we are afraid that adding believer’s baptism and Lord’s Supper and church discipline, the practice of church discipline will be elevated to the level of church ordinance
June 11, 2008 at 8:13 am
It appears that the committee is, as Orman tacitly stated, is to “just say enough”. A minimalist mindset works well for marketing strategies, but not fidelity to Scriptures.
Minimalism leads to nominalism.
June 11, 2008 at 8:15 am
Yarnell amendment passes.
June 11, 2008 at 8:18 am
Mic 11 Tom Ascol:
Motion to amend: after third whereas, add two more whereas statements . . .
Whereas the 2007 Southern Baptist Convention Annual Church Profiles indicate that there are 16,266,920 members in Southern Baptist churches; and
Whereas those same profiles indicate that only 6,148,868 of those members attend a primary worship service of their church in a typical week; and
June 11, 2008 at 8:19 am
Ascol, continuing . . .
Above first resolved, additional resolve:
RESOLVED that we urge the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention to repent of the any failure among us to live up to our professed commitment to regenerate church membership and any failure to obey Jesus Christ in the practice of lovingly correcting wayward church members (Matthew 18:15-18), and be it further
Final resolve after last printed resolve:
RESOLVED that we humbly encourage denominational servants to support and encourage churches that seek to recover and implement our Savior’s teachings on church discipline, even if such efforts result in the reduction in the number of members that are reported in those churches, and be it finally
June 11, 2008 at 8:23 am
Timmy you type like a lifelong secretary on speed. Amazing.
June 11, 2008 at 8:24 am
Tom speaking to his amendment:
Last year the convention passed a resolution on the legitimacy on repentance; surely if we need to repent over anything, we need to repent how we have failed to keep biblical standards to church membership
Dockery interviewed last week: ““We need to repent of our lack of concern for biblical faithfulness in our concern and care for church members. We need to repent of the way the way we often allow people to join local churches without stressing the covenantal aspect of membership. We need to repent of the fact that we have largely neglected any aspect of church discipline that would have helped us begin to address some of these matters.””
Surely we can say amen to Dr. Dockery’s statements on repentance
June 11, 2008 at 8:25 am
Committee’s Response:
“we are appreciate your heart on the purity of the church . . . we carefully selected the language specifically to address these issues; regarding repentance, the reason we did not go as strongly as you wish, because out of our committee, we have five pastors, all have exercised oversight and conscientiousness in maintaining church membership . . . it was not proper to ask our convention to repent when there are churches who are practicing regenerate church membership; further, we would not like to rewrite this resolution on the convention floor; we literally bringing a baby from four DNA strains, we are asking that you let the baby live”
June 11, 2008 at 8:27 am
Bill Ascol:
“This is a call for corporate repentance. We have in years past called for corporate repentance on issues not all of us are guilty of. We have by an large failed to practice integrity in church membership. Dagg, when discipline leaves the church, Christ goes with it. We appreciate the convention wanting to save the baby; I just want the baby to look like a Baptist.”
June 11, 2008 at 8:30 am
Tom Ascol’s amendment passes!
There is hope.
June 11, 2008 at 8:30 am
GO TOM!
June 11, 2008 at 8:31 am
Resolution on Regenerate Church Membership, as stated with the two amendments, passes.
Looks like the Resolution Committee wasted a lot of time stripping away things they could not keep out.
June 11, 2008 at 8:32 am
Praise the Lord!!!
June 11, 2008 at 8:33 am
Mohler: “I am glad that I am a part of a denomination that something that is discussing something as important and central as regenerate church membership.”
Years of discussion: 3
Years of passage: 1
It’s a start.
June 11, 2008 at 8:35 am
Praise the Lord! Thank you Tom and everyone else that has been fighting for this for years. Now if we can just get the news to the average Southern Baptist in the pew that is likely to never hear anything about this. From my experience, even when members of the worst offending mega churches hear of this resolution, they see the need for it.
And now Al Mohler.
June 11, 2008 at 8:37 am
Having now a Convention consensus on the matter, may we all pray for churches and pastors to implement the hard work of practicing regenerate church membership. Remember that no resolution is binding on the churches, but it can be binding on our hearts. May the conversation not end, but begin to translate into action, so that, five years from now, we will not look back and see that it was just a resolution–nothing more, nothing less.
June 11, 2008 at 9:00 am
Tom and Bill Ascol disciplined “the baby” and it still lived. Now if we’ll just trust God to do the same in our churches.
June 11, 2008 at 9:02 am
I’m sitting here in the conventon center. I’m so excited about this resolution passing with the admendments. There were quite a few that voted in opposition to Tom’s amendment. I wasn’t sure if it had passed or not until Dr. Page said so.
June 11, 2008 at 9:07 am
John,
Thanks for sharing your perspective from the convention floor. I have talked to a few other friends on the floor as well. The opposition to regenerate church membership is slowly running out of unbiblical answers. I’m glad to see more people this year recognizing the importance of this cardinal distinctive of Baptist identity.
June 11, 2008 at 9:13 am
An illuminating commentary from Ben Wright, of Capitol Hill Baptist Church:
http://paleoevangelical.blogspot.com/2008/06/somewhere-between-jesus-and-john-wayne.html
Two paragraph for starters:
“So the SBC is in a precarious position. The preaching put on display is counter-productive to the principles of the Resurgence. It’s not that anyone denies the authority, inerrancy, or sufficiency of Scripture. It’s not that anyone would explicitly reject expository preaching. The problem is that the prevailing majority of the preaching that’s on display reduces biblical authority to (at best) a trite series of mottos and (at worst) a jumping-off point for man-centered theology or a comedy routine.
Just as I’ve argued that fundamentalists who profess allegiance to Scripture are hypocrites when they tolerate (and even elevate) preaching that undermines it, so is a fundamentalistic SBC Conservative Resurgence that tolerates what we’ve seen and heard this week.”
June 11, 2008 at 9:17 am
Wes Kenney, at SBCToday,
“It was a remarkable moment, in that the convention overturned the will of the committee in order to add Dr. Ascol’s language. I was pleased to support the amendment, and proud to be a part of this historic moment.”
Source: http://sbctoday.com/2008/06/11/resolution-unity/
June 11, 2008 at 9:19 am
Steve Weaver, on his blog,
“This is a great day for Southern Baptists. A hybrid resolution compiled from four submitted motions was overwhelmingly adopted today by the messengers of the SBC. This resolution contained ammendments from the floor by Drs. Ascol and Yarnell which greatly strengthened it.”
Source: http://pastorsteveweaver.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/resolution-on-regenerate-church-membership/
June 11, 2008 at 9:24 am
From Baptist Press:
“The amendment was proposed by Tom Ascol, a messenger from Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Fla. His amendment passed by roughly 60 percent of messengers, and the final amended version of the resolution passed nearly unanimously.”
Source: http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=168&title=Messengers+pass+amended+membership+resolution+%2D%2D+updated
June 11, 2008 at 9:25 am
Man I got to get me one of those Spurgeon Bobbleheads.
June 11, 2008 at 9:34 am
Justin Childers, on his blog:
“I can remember watching the SBC 3 years ago where this same resolution was denied. This is a fantastic day in the life of the SBC.”
Source: http://justinchilders.blogspot.com/2008/06/sbc-calls-for-repentanc