For the first time in three years of blogging, I am closing the comments.

I had no real intention of responding at this thread (particularly as it pertains to Warren’s endorsement of the resolution)- my husband and I have discussed the post and the comments plenty offline, and I thought both of our views on this had already been well represented here by others already.

However, your insulting comments toward Steve Camp have compelled me to say a thing or two. You say that Steve’s “endless rants” across the blogosphere speak for themselves - as if to say you are somehow validated in your rudeness toward him because you and others don’t like what it is he has to say. Now, I know Steve can speak for himself and defend himself, but I’m just really tired of reading this kind of cheap-shot, graceless, arrogant commenting towards a brother on a public format. While it is perfectly understandable that we will not all agree with one another’s opinions or views on certain things, it is never understandable or acceptable to see the kind of rudeness I often see when it comes to trashing Steve’s name. It’s intentionally hurtful, slanderous, and juvenile - and completely defenseless and unjustifiable.

You say “In calling Steve Camp a ‘hater,’ I mean that he is always negative, always critical, always blasting brothers in Christ in many a comment thread on many a blog.”

I find this rather striking, since Camp certainly isn’t the only one here saying what he has said. In fact, if you read back through the comments here, several people have agreed with his views - so does that make all of them “haters” too, or is that slanderous comment specially reserved for Steve? What I also find striking about this comment is your exagerration of the “always negative, always critical, always blasting brothers”. Do you actually read what he says, or do you just skip past the good stuff and zero in on the (rightly) critical and circumspect tone that he expresses? For that matter, have you taken the temperature of the evangelical church lately? Do you not see how LACK of discernment and chastisement and rebuke has led to the sorry, pitiful state that the church is in right now? It’s a shameful situation that our modern evangelical church is in, partly because of the unwillingness of more leaders in the church to say the things that ought to be said. As for Warren, Osteen and Driscoll, the criticism they receive is criticism they have earned themselves, and it is well deserved.

William responded and said “And if your measuring rod for negative commenting is about Osteen, Warren or Driscoll, then count me in as negative as well. You would also have to include men like John MacArthur, RC Sproul and Al Mohler with Mr. Camp. They all have voiced opinions of concern on those men too.”

You’ll have to count myself and my husband into that same “hater” camp, as well as my pastor and numerous other concerned Christians, that actually care enough about the integrity of our Lord’s church to have the courage to speak up and say what NEEDS to be said, in spite of the slamming that WILL come from the “oh let’s just appreciate everyone” crowd.

For the record (not that it matters much, I’m sure) Warren endorsing this resolution means absolutely nothing, unless he’s willing also to stop holding hands with the world (and other religions) the way he does.

Timmy Brister’s opening statement here includes “Some fundies are having a cow” as it pertains to Warren. I’m unclear who is meant by “fundies” or what they’re “having a cow” about (if that just means Warren in general or Warren allegedly commenting at Ascol’s blog - I’m not entirely convinced that’s really him anyway), but this is the sort of thing that is often said when folks who are rightly critical of the state of the evangelical church have the courage to speak up.

Toward that end, I’m really curious what these kinds of folks who can’t handle some honest criticism would think of James White’s Pulpit Crimes? He doesn’t hold back in that book, but says exactly what needs to be said (the same exact way Camp does). Is brother White a hater too, or is he somehow exempt?

I guess I’m just finally tired of the double standards, the fluff, the “you’re SO mean!”, sort of attitudes. The Christian church is in a sorry state and praise God for brothers and leaders in His church that have a backbone, and will say what needs to be said regardless of the “friendly” fire.

I’m not sure how you concluded that my “measuring rod for negative commenting is about Osteen, Warren, or Driscoll,” simply because I mentioned their names.

And you admonished me for taking a jab at Steve Camp and then gave it right back to me…classy.

Steve Camp’s endless rants across the evangelical corner of the blogosphere speak for themselves.

This is my last comment in this thread.

Blessings,
Gavin

The issue here is simple: can Mr. Warren really represent an RCM conviction at his own church when even by your own admission he preaches a shallow gospel? He is not to be commended for such.

And btw, there are many others on this thread who have voiced negative opinions about Mr. Warren’s name being in support of this resolution. There are also others who voiced negative opinion about Mr. Osteen as well - though Mr. Camp did not here. Why didn’t you mention them too?

IMHO, I think you may be the one who has the “hater” problem here - not Mr. Camp. And if your measuring rod for negative commenting is about Osteen, Warren or Driscoll, then count me in as negative as well. You would also have to include men like John MacArthur, RC Sproul and Al Mohler with Mr. Camp. They all have voiced opinions of concern on those men too.

I agree with Robert as well, let’s continue to pray for Mr. Warren and his church.

In calling Steve Camp a ‘hater,’ I mean that he is always negative, always critical, always blasting brothers in Christ in many a comment thread on many a blog. Its usage was more the way it (hater) is used in pop culture…I don’t mean that he literally hates Rick Warren.

But seriously, I have been reading Timmy’s blog and others for a few years now, and I have grown weary of seeing Mr. Camp pop up in comment threads to use his spiritual gift of ciriticism whenever the name Rick Warren or Joel Osteen or Mark Driscoll is mentioned.

I, too, think Warren’s presentation of the gospel is shallow, but I applaud his effort to back Ascol’s resolution.

Blessings,
Gavin Brown

I have been in pastoral ministry for many years and am concerned about Mr. Warren’s brand of gospel as well. It is shallow. Our church did not jump on the PDL bandwagon because of the lack of a deep gospel being represented. Some others here have pointed out as well Mr. Warren’s involvment in social or political issues. When our brother acts more like a politician rather than a pastor, there is some cause for concern. His AIDS conference that did feature Senator Obama was as well confusing to many of us in pastoral ministry.

I also felt the need to at least defend in part Mr. Camp. Gavin, you may choose to disagree with Steve on this issue; but to call him a hater is going to far. In fact, I found his blog and his comments to be truthful, straightforward and full of grace. His comment here was not hate, but fact. I think you should be careful in how you quickly characterized this brother in the Lord.

I will continue to pray for Mr. Warren and his church. As for this resolution, I am with the several on this thread that feel his name hurts Mr. Ascol’s excellent work.

Thank you for letting me say a few words here on this issue.
Robert

And yes, he does preach a different gospel than what is in scripture.

By the way, who disciplines Warren?