I have never thought about the superstitious aspect of it. One of the things that comes to my mind is the justification and rationale that supports unregenerate church membership, playing on percentages that for ever “x” number you reach, you keep “y” number. The idea is to have as many people join the church, knowing that “z” percentage of them will stay around. Of course, this raw pragmatism has devastating consequences for a church, not the least of which is turning the souls of men into raw statistical data rather than image bearers of our Creator. Secondly, we are saying that the God saves and keeps only a fraction of those who join the church. For Southern Baptists who believe in eternal security, what are we saying when the majority percentage fall away from the church? The implications are serious, and I am looking to elaborate on those in the future.

What your church is doing is great. There are some very practical ways of trying to restore regenerate church membership, and having a new members class is a great place to start. Thanks for sharing that.

Regarding the SBC, yes, we often have our priorities wrong. We have shown we that we are more concerned about whether a Southern Baptist has had a glass of wine than whether they are going to hell.

In the church where I serve, one of the most helpful things that we have implemented is a new member’s class. This class is a prerequisite to church membership/baptism. It helps me (associate pastor of worship) and our senior pastor get to know these prospective members instead of having them come down the aisle, and vote them in on the spot, never to see them again. Since we have begun this, we have had very little trouble with members becoming inactive. It also gives us the opportunity to share with these people about the heart, vision, and even theology of our church, so that there are no surprises once they have joined. While I think we have a long way to go in being completely responsible about our attendance vs. roll, I think we are moving in the right direction. I hope that the Convention as a whole will realize that being biblically responsible with our membership is more important than numbers.

Finally, I can’t help but remember the SBC meeting in ’06 where so much emphasis was given to a resolution on total abstinence from the abuse, advertisement or consumption of alcohol, and virtually no consideration was given to a resolution about this very matter.

Having done this blog thing now for over three years, I completely understand how you could be misunderstood or taken the wrong way. I welcome your comments and even criticisms as I hope to provide an open, balanced, and level-headed discussion on these matters which seldom seem to be treated with any degree of serious concern. I believe that we all have in mind what is best for our churches, though we come at it at different levels, and hearing different perspectives can be challenging and eye opening at times (I am speaking as one who has learned much from others in the comments).

I hope you feel comfortable with commenting in the future and know that I do not consider your comments an attack. I just want to keep the focus on the issue at hand and not individuals (or resorting to ad-hominem statements). Thanks for your comment and clarification, and also for your kind words about my ministry.

Grace always,

Timmy B.

Timmy,

If it came across wrong, I didn’t mean for it to sound that way. I honestly do not believe that you were attacking Dr. Cox’s integrity at all. I just fear that some of your readers will turn it into that as they have even in there comments used the term “dishonest” and “lying”. Again, I don’t think that is fair.

Again, your concerns and points are well taken, but some of your readers as they have commented on it translated this post into pastors and (since this post is a direct reslut of North Metro’s numbers and Dr. Cox) Dr. Cox being “dishonest” about his numbers, and I just wanted to try to combat that interpretation.

I apologize if you took my response as an attack towards you, it definitely wasn’t. I feel that in this particular situation it is the system that is broke more than the person or pastor. Again, thank you for your research.

This is one thing I hate about blogs, nobody can hear the tone in your voice, so many things can get taken the wrong way.

May God Bless you in all of your ministry ahead!

Can you let me know where I may access this statistical information?

Thanks!

With all due respect, nothing I have said in this post was directed to Mr. Cox. If you look at the title of my post, it is “ministerially speaking” and refers to the way in which, as Southern Baptists, we are bragging about our unhealthy ecclesiology. Cox was one of a number of examples I could have given in this case. I chose him because of the BP report and the fact that he is nominated to be president of the SBC. It goes without saying that someone running for president of the SBC will be given a little more attention than your average Joe who is pastor of a rural SBC church.

For the record, I have never implied that Dr. Cox is dishonest. What I have said is that our reporting and use of statistics is dishonest, and that fact is undeniable. I am not responsible for how the readers respond to the facts. So to say that presenting the information as support for an argument that might not be to someone’s liking does not make a legitimate argument. The truth is, the information isn’t good. We don’t like. I don’t like it. But are we to just shove it under the rug and pretend there is no problem? Not discuss this for fear of someone responding in an appropriate manner? What is not fair is making an argument that one is being unfair simply because you do not like the results. If that was the case, then nothing could ever be said, knowing that someone somewhere is not going like my argument or conclusion.

You said,

“It seems that once you hit that 1500 to 2000 mark it is hard sustain the same growth and even attendance as the Pastor has to rely more on other staff and lay people and space can become an issue. You just aren’t going to have 4000 people every Sunday in space that holds 2000.”

Do you realize that you are implying that the church stops growing because of the incompetence of the staff and space limitations? But this is besides the point. Here’s the point. North Metro added 2,615 to their membership in seven years, 1,095 by baptism. And during that same time, they decreased in attendance by 266. How do you account for that? Merely staff incompetence and space limitations? Surely not.

Lastly you said,

“How others interpret, quote, or misquote those numbers is not the fault of the church or of Dr. Cox.”

That may be true, but again that is besides the point. I will ask a simple question. Do the stats provided in my research reflect biblical church growth, a healthy ecclesiology, and a sound understanding of the gospel and conversion? If they don’t, then the place where the fault lies is obvious to all.

I have no reason to doubt that Dr. Cox is an upright and godly man. If you noticed, I lauded him in the article the only time I mentioned his name. Nevertheless, the facts speak for themselves. I didn’t make them up, and I would love have been able to seen numbers that reflected regenerate church membership and biblical ecclesiology. I am hopeful that the discussion raised will not turn us to bitterness but brokenness. If there is ever a time to get it right, why not now?

The research I mentioned in my last comment is a study that I have appropriately entitled, “Every Number Has a Story.” If you have listened to the IMB promos, this is their slogan, but it is used to promote the numbers we like to hear. Yet no one wants to mention the numbers we do not want to hear. Yet those numbers have stories too, and I think someone should tell them too. Every number counts, right?

I talked to another brother who has either undertaken or considering undertaking the churches leading in baptism and finding what percentage are under the age of six. I think that will say a lot. On a personal note, I know of a church who led their association in baptisms two years ago, but no one mentioned that over half were repeat baptisms (some multiple times).

RE: Josh Vincent,

That’s great news. Josh and I had several classes together, including Gentry’s Elementary Hebrew. I look forward to looking him up when we head down to FL.