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	<title>Comments on: Toward a Missional SBC, Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: Speaking of Church and Culture &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Speaking of Church and Culture &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Church and&#160;Culture   [For context of current discussion, see my posts here and here.]  Phil Ryken at Reformation 21 blog asks the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Church and&nbsp;Culture   [For context of current discussion, see my posts here and here.]  Phil Ryken at Reformation 21 blog asks the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen,

I&#039;ve got a series of posts that I want to write about regarding discipleship which focuses on learning as a way of life rather than discipleship as a program or a weekly church function.  To delve into this series now would be a bit premature, and I am afraid that it would create yet another really long comment by me!  So all I can say for now is stay tuned as I think there will be something in the future that will speak to what you have said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a series of posts that I want to write about regarding discipleship which focuses on learning as a way of life rather than discipleship as a program or a weekly church function.  To delve into this series now would be a bit premature, and I am afraid that it would create yet another really long comment by me!  So all I can say for now is stay tuned as I think there will be something in the future that will speak to what you have said.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Travis,

Yeah, I think you are on to something.  Some of the appeal to being missional is reactionary to those who have for a long time been in retreat.  Being missional implies you are going into the culture as a missionary, meaning that you have a purpose in mind that serves as a governor in where you go, what you do, what you say, etc.  To cease having the conviction that God is sending you into the world with a mission that transcends your everyday dealings is to cease being missional.  It is not being &quot;worldly&quot; for the sake of being &quot;worldly&quot; but being &quot;in the world&quot; for the sake of rescuing others out of the world.  However, the rescue is not merely a pit stop or drive by but a center and dwelling place in the heart of broken humanity and cultural influences.  It is a presence that speaks of the invasion of another kingdom through the rule of another King that has rights over all things, having subjected them under his feet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis,</p>
<p>Yeah, I think you are on to something.  Some of the appeal to being missional is reactionary to those who have for a long time been in retreat.  Being missional implies you are going into the culture as a missionary, meaning that you have a purpose in mind that serves as a governor in where you go, what you do, what you say, etc.  To cease having the conviction that God is sending you into the world with a mission that transcends your everyday dealings is to cease being missional.  It is not being &#8220;worldly&#8221; for the sake of being &#8220;worldly&#8221; but being &#8220;in the world&#8221; for the sake of rescuing others out of the world.  However, the rescue is not merely a pit stop or drive by but a center and dwelling place in the heart of broken humanity and cultural influences.  It is a presence that speaks of the invasion of another kingdom through the rule of another King that has rights over all things, having subjected them under his feet.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guys,

I apologize for taking so long to respond.  Monday&#039;s are really tough!  

JohnMark, you asked,

“What does a missional SBC look like? What does it look like as played out throughout the congregation? What changes now and what’s next?&quot;

The thing about moving toward a missional SBC is that it is not like a program that you can fabricate and mass produce to every SBC churches and expect it to &quot;work.&quot;  I think there is a long line of pastors who will testify that the Purpose Driven model didn&#039;t deliver all that it promised.  

Each context which a church finds itself is unique.  Rather than trying to make the SBC  conform to some arbitrary standards, I am arguing that we develop a common posture that is expressed in Scripture in the NT church.  Some contexts will be multi-ethnic and others not; some will be rural and others urban; some will be more traditional, while others will be more contemporary.  The point is that a missional church knows the Scripture well and knows the culture well.  What they want to do is communicate the gospel in their respective cultural contexts in a way that those we are trying to reach can understand it.  Some of the reason why the lost don&#039;t understand the gospel is because we don&#039;t give it all to them.  We have broken the gospel down in parts with six steps, five ways, four laws, three points, etc.  Furthermore, they have not seen what is looks like outside a normal religious setting.  How does a someone impacted the gospel of Jesus Christ live in everyday settings?  

So I would say that a missional church is one that is rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ where the normative expressions of Christ-centered, mission-driven followers of Jesus have left their marks on the world they are seeking to reach.  If our culture is a canvas, we should be the brush and God as the artist where he paints the gospel of the glory of Christ across the canvas of our world through our lives.  Ultimately, the picture our world is to see is the infinite value and surpassing worth of knowing Jesus Christ our Treasure and our King.  

The changes that need to be made it to help Christians realize that they are such brushes entrusted with the gospel.  This trust is weighty, for in the good news of Jesus Christ, the only hope for broken humanity can be found.  We too often act as though the gospel is not relevant to our world because it has become irrelevant to us.  Well, there&#039;s much more that could be said here, so I will think about writing this some more later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys,</p>
<p>I apologize for taking so long to respond.  Monday&#8217;s are really tough!  </p>
<p>JohnMark, you asked,</p>
<p>“What does a missional SBC look like? What does it look like as played out throughout the congregation? What changes now and what’s next?&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing about moving toward a missional SBC is that it is not like a program that you can fabricate and mass produce to every SBC churches and expect it to &#8220;work.&#8221;  I think there is a long line of pastors who will testify that the Purpose Driven model didn&#8217;t deliver all that it promised.  </p>
<p>Each context which a church finds itself is unique.  Rather than trying to make the SBC  conform to some arbitrary standards, I am arguing that we develop a common posture that is expressed in Scripture in the NT church.  Some contexts will be multi-ethnic and others not; some will be rural and others urban; some will be more traditional, while others will be more contemporary.  The point is that a missional church knows the Scripture well and knows the culture well.  What they want to do is communicate the gospel in their respective cultural contexts in a way that those we are trying to reach can understand it.  Some of the reason why the lost don&#8217;t understand the gospel is because we don&#8217;t give it all to them.  We have broken the gospel down in parts with six steps, five ways, four laws, three points, etc.  Furthermore, they have not seen what is looks like outside a normal religious setting.  How does a someone impacted the gospel of Jesus Christ live in everyday settings?  </p>
<p>So I would say that a missional church is one that is rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ where the normative expressions of Christ-centered, mission-driven followers of Jesus have left their marks on the world they are seeking to reach.  If our culture is a canvas, we should be the brush and God as the artist where he paints the gospel of the glory of Christ across the canvas of our world through our lives.  Ultimately, the picture our world is to see is the infinite value and surpassing worth of knowing Jesus Christ our Treasure and our King.  </p>
<p>The changes that need to be made it to help Christians realize that they are such brushes entrusted with the gospel.  This trust is weighty, for in the good news of Jesus Christ, the only hope for broken humanity can be found.  We too often act as though the gospel is not relevant to our world because it has become irrelevant to us.  Well, there&#8217;s much more that could be said here, so I will think about writing this some more later.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Newell</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Newell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,

When you talk about being in the &lt;i&gt;missional camp&lt;/i&gt;, I had to stop and think about that for a moment.  Much of what you said in that particular paragraph is something many of us have heard or have even said ourselves.  Even more, many people, when they hear this description, will nod their heads and say their &quot;amens&quot; at it, as well.

The problem, as I&#039;m sure we&#039;ve all noticed, is that &lt;i&gt;we aren&#039;t practicing what we are preaching/hearing&lt;/i&gt;.  And we can say that very sentence over and over until it turns into beating a dead horse.  Even if we succeed at recovering the gospel, regenerate membership, and church discipline; if nothing comes of that then we have still failed.

I am increasingly coming to think that we can&#039;t just continue to say &quot;this is what we need to be doing,&quot; doing &quot;this&quot; all by ourselves, and then expecting everyone else to follow.  We&#039;ve got to train the saints.  And therein lies the greater challenge:  discipleship in the Southern Baptist Convention seems to be an utter failure.  Until we can reform our discipleship practices, I am scared (yes, scared) that no amount of gospel, saved membership, and church discipline can do what actually needs to be done for an SBC church to be truly healthy and grow.

I guess what I&#039;m really getting at is I&#039;m wondering &quot;what&#039;s next.&quot;  Say we get those three foundational things; then what?  Is our &quot;plan&quot; half-baked or do we have all the ingredients in place?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,</p>
<p>When you talk about being in the <i>missional camp</i>, I had to stop and think about that for a moment.  Much of what you said in that particular paragraph is something many of us have heard or have even said ourselves.  Even more, many people, when they hear this description, will nod their heads and say their &#8220;amens&#8221; at it, as well.</p>
<p>The problem, as I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ve all noticed, is that <i>we aren&#8217;t practicing what we are preaching/hearing</i>.  And we can say that very sentence over and over until it turns into beating a dead horse.  Even if we succeed at recovering the gospel, regenerate membership, and church discipline; if nothing comes of that then we have still failed.</p>
<p>I am increasingly coming to think that we can&#8217;t just continue to say &#8220;this is what we need to be doing,&#8221; doing &#8220;this&#8221; all by ourselves, and then expecting everyone else to follow.  We&#8217;ve got to train the saints.  And therein lies the greater challenge:  discipleship in the Southern Baptist Convention seems to be an utter failure.  Until we can reform our discipleship practices, I am scared (yes, scared) that no amount of gospel, saved membership, and church discipline can do what actually needs to be done for an SBC church to be truly healthy and grow.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m really getting at is I&#8217;m wondering &#8220;what&#8217;s next.&#8221;  Say we get those three foundational things; then what?  Is our &#8220;plan&#8221; half-baked or do we have all the ingredients in place?</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Hilton</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Travis Hilton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,

I happened to preach a message tonight that was similar to some of your ideas.  I even quoted some of the same scriptures you mentioned.  

I&#039;m still fleshing out the difference between being a &quot;worldly&quot; Christian in a negative way (and I see a lot of Chriatians who are) and one who lives in the culture and retains their convictions.  I&#039;m afraid there are some who think they are &quot;missional&quot; because they happen to be engaged in many activities that the world engages in.  That doesn&#039;t necessarily mean you are &quot;missional&quot;.  That could mean you&#039;re just doing what you like to do.  If we&#039;re to follow the example of someone like Paul it means that it may not be my personal preference to go to a certain place to be around people different from us or engadge them through sports, music ect.   Being missional, as I&#039;m preceiving it has a lot more to do with dieing to self than I hear a lot of people talk about.

TBH]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,</p>
<p>I happened to preach a message tonight that was similar to some of your ideas.  I even quoted some of the same scriptures you mentioned.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m still fleshing out the difference between being a &#8220;worldly&#8221; Christian in a negative way (and I see a lot of Chriatians who are) and one who lives in the culture and retains their convictions.  I&#8217;m afraid there are some who think they are &#8220;missional&#8221; because they happen to be engaged in many activities that the world engages in.  That doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean you are &#8220;missional&#8221;.  That could mean you&#8217;re just doing what you like to do.  If we&#8217;re to follow the example of someone like Paul it means that it may not be my personal preference to go to a certain place to be around people different from us or engadge them through sports, music ect.   Being missional, as I&#8217;m preceiving it has a lot more to do with dieing to self than I hear a lot of people talk about.</p>
<p>TBH</p>
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		<title>By: johnMark</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnMark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/07/toward-a-missional-sbc-part-2/#comment-15305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,

I think there is an unanswered question that would help people understand more clearly what you are talking about.  That question is &quot;What does a missional SBC look like?&quot;  What does it look like as played out throughout the congregation?  What changes now and what&#039;s next?

Right now, I believe, we hear about giving money to missions, building projects, etc. and that we are &quot;building this or that to the glory of God&quot; and it&#039;s &quot;His plan&quot; and &quot;God is doing great things&quot; through this church and projects X,Y, Z.  I scratch my head and think &quot;What are all of these great things?&quot;  We get More comfortable buildings and all but so what?  

What I am getting at is that right now on a local level I don&#039;t see much difference between a nice club that meets on Sunday and the church.  Okay, I may be exaggerating a bit, but I can&#039;t think of anything to make the point with right now.  For example, when I go to lunch with a business associate we talk about business.  At my last weekend drill we talked about our battalion, training, etc.  When I go to lunch with other church members after church we certainly don&#039;t talk bible, theology or evangelism and that&#039;s ashame.  It&#039;s partly me fault, I admit.  I only talk theology and evangelism when I&#039;m with a certain set of theology geek friends.

My idea of missional is like the witnessing story at UPS you shared or your evangelism at college.  I hope that the local church members can get energized and encourage each other to do those types of things.  When we see a good movie on Saturday we go back to work or where ever on Monday and can&#039;t wait to talk about it.  We don&#039;t talk about worship with the same enthusiasm, do we?  How boring...I go to commune with GOD!  C&#039;mon, we can do better!

Sorry, this has been dragging me down for a while and I am preaching to myself too.

So, what do missional look like lived out?

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,</p>
<p>I think there is an unanswered question that would help people understand more clearly what you are talking about.  That question is &#8220;What does a missional SBC look like?&#8221;  What does it look like as played out throughout the congregation?  What changes now and what&#8217;s next?</p>
<p>Right now, I believe, we hear about giving money to missions, building projects, etc. and that we are &#8220;building this or that to the glory of God&#8221; and it&#8217;s &#8220;His plan&#8221; and &#8220;God is doing great things&#8221; through this church and projects X,Y, Z.  I scratch my head and think &#8220;What are all of these great things?&#8221;  We get More comfortable buildings and all but so what?  </p>
<p>What I am getting at is that right now on a local level I don&#8217;t see much difference between a nice club that meets on Sunday and the church.  Okay, I may be exaggerating a bit, but I can&#8217;t think of anything to make the point with right now.  For example, when I go to lunch with a business associate we talk about business.  At my last weekend drill we talked about our battalion, training, etc.  When I go to lunch with other church members after church we certainly don&#8217;t talk bible, theology or evangelism and that&#8217;s ashame.  It&#8217;s partly me fault, I admit.  I only talk theology and evangelism when I&#8217;m with a certain set of theology geek friends.</p>
<p>My idea of missional is like the witnessing story at UPS you shared or your evangelism at college.  I hope that the local church members can get energized and encourage each other to do those types of things.  When we see a good movie on Saturday we go back to work or where ever on Monday and can&#8217;t wait to talk about it.  We don&#8217;t talk about worship with the same enthusiasm, do we?  How boring&#8230;I go to commune with GOD!  C&#8217;mon, we can do better!</p>
<p>Sorry, this has been dragging me down for a while and I am preaching to myself too.</p>
<p>So, what do missional look like lived out?</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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