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	<title>Comments on: Outsourcing the Local Church?</title>
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	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: SBC in Crisis: Blog Roundup for 10/06/2007, Reading Week Edition &#124; Said At Southern Seminary</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SBC in Crisis: Blog Roundup for 10/06/2007, Reading Week Edition &#124; Said At Southern Seminary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] Outsourcing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Outsourcing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ken,

Oh, no! The local church exists in every village, town, and city (where the power of the Gospel has borne fruit in the lives of residents), but in the writings of Paul there is only ONE church in each locale (i.e., the church in Corinth, the church in Philippi, the church in Jerusalem). While there would have been multiple households in a city the size of Corinth, the collective sum of those household congregations would have been called &quot;the church in Corinth.&quot; That&#039;s how I believe God sees &quot;the local church.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>Oh, no! The local church exists in every village, town, and city (where the power of the Gospel has borne fruit in the lives of residents), but in the writings of Paul there is only ONE church in each locale (i.e., the church in Corinth, the church in Philippi, the church in Jerusalem). While there would have been multiple households in a city the size of Corinth, the collective sum of those household congregations would have been called &#8220;the church in Corinth.&#8221; That&#8217;s how I believe God sees &#8220;the local church.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wolf Paul,  Your idea or really Bill&#039;s, brings many questions to my mind. Are you saying there is no local church per se but only the universal church?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolf Paul,  Your idea or really Bill&#8217;s, brings many questions to my mind. Are you saying there is no local church per se but only the universal church?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Shaver</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Shaver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John Taylor is falsely accused by modern Baptist historians of being the Anti-Missions &quot;anti-Christ&quot; among frontier Baptists in the early 1800&#039;s.   The man was a missionary and supported missions, but he just didn&#039;t think much of the new societies that were springing up.  He said of the entire missions movement  and specifically the promoters of that movement, that the big problem was we would never be able to send them enough money.  

In a sense he was right.  There are always solicitations by well meaning and good people everywhere that must be refused by Local Churches simply because we don&#039;t have unlimited resources.

Therefore each Church must under the leadership of the Holy Spirit determine where they will use the financial resources they have been blessed with.  

Southern Baptists have a great system in the CP.  Unfortunately the great men who started the Cooperative Program left out the Local Baptist Association when it came to the funding formula.

What my Church and the Churches of my association are rediscovering is that the Local Baptist Churches in our Association make up the best &quot;feet on the ground&quot; missions team we know of anywhere and we are putting our money where our hearts are.  My church for example sends 5% of its undesignated receipts to the local Baptist Association and 5% to the Cooperative Program.  

We are seeing unprecedented growth in Missions activity and Missions interest in the churches of our association.  

Last night in my church&#039;s business meeting - most of our discussion centered around Mission opportunities that our church wanted to participate in with other churches in our association.  The end result will be more missions involvement by the local churches and more missions giving which will in time increase our giving to the Cooperative Program.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Taylor is falsely accused by modern Baptist historians of being the Anti-Missions &#8220;anti-Christ&#8221; among frontier Baptists in the early 1800&#8242;s.   The man was a missionary and supported missions, but he just didn&#8217;t think much of the new societies that were springing up.  He said of the entire missions movement  and specifically the promoters of that movement, that the big problem was we would never be able to send them enough money.  </p>
<p>In a sense he was right.  There are always solicitations by well meaning and good people everywhere that must be refused by Local Churches simply because we don&#8217;t have unlimited resources.</p>
<p>Therefore each Church must under the leadership of the Holy Spirit determine where they will use the financial resources they have been blessed with.  </p>
<p>Southern Baptists have a great system in the CP.  Unfortunately the great men who started the Cooperative Program left out the Local Baptist Association when it came to the funding formula.</p>
<p>What my Church and the Churches of my association are rediscovering is that the Local Baptist Churches in our Association make up the best &#8220;feet on the ground&#8221; missions team we know of anywhere and we are putting our money where our hearts are.  My church for example sends 5% of its undesignated receipts to the local Baptist Association and 5% to the Cooperative Program.  </p>
<p>We are seeing unprecedented growth in Missions activity and Missions interest in the churches of our association.  </p>
<p>Last night in my church&#8217;s business meeting &#8211; most of our discussion centered around Mission opportunities that our church wanted to participate in with other churches in our association.  The end result will be more missions involvement by the local churches and more missions giving which will in time increase our giving to the Cooperative Program.</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Emmanuel Osei</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pastor Emmanuel Osei]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear in the Lord,

        I am Pastor Emmanuel Osei from  Ghana.  I  have a mission to spread the word of God to the needy,orphans,the deprive in the society so as to get them well grounded with the word of God.To provide them with food,clothes, shelter, health, and educational supports.

     I would want to join with your outfit so that the vision the Lord have given me would be fulfilled  here in Ghana and plant churches, evangelize,plant schools, open prayer centers.Hoping  to receiving a favorable response from your outfit. (Matthew 25:31-44)

                                                                                    www.offei.zoomshare.com        

                                                                                    P.O.Box    629.Ashaiman.Ghana 

                                                                                     Phone:0233-285046422
        DeleteReplyForwardSpamMove...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear in the Lord,</p>
<p>        I am Pastor Emmanuel Osei from  Ghana.  I  have a mission to spread the word of God to the needy,orphans,the deprive in the society so as to get them well grounded with the word of God.To provide them with food,clothes, shelter, health, and educational supports.</p>
<p>     I would want to join with your outfit so that the vision the Lord have given me would be fulfilled  here in Ghana and plant churches, evangelize,plant schools, open prayer centers.Hoping  to receiving a favorable response from your outfit. (Matthew 25:31-44)</p>
<p>                                                                                    <a href="http://www.offei.zoomshare.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.offei.zoomshare.com</a>        </p>
<p>                                                                                    P.O.Box    629.Ashaiman.Ghana </p>
<p>                                                                                     Phone:0233-285046422<br />
        DeleteReplyForwardSpamMove&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Finally, someone understands what I&#039;m trying to say. Thanks Wolf Paul!

And if a huge number of believers from around the world decide to pool their resources to feed the hungry through World Vision, or show mercy to the untouchables through Leprosy Mission, then the hands and feet of Christ are on display to the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, someone understands what I&#8217;m trying to say. Thanks Wolf Paul!</p>
<p>And if a huge number of believers from around the world decide to pool their resources to feed the hungry through World Vision, or show mercy to the untouchables through Leprosy Mission, then the hands and feet of Christ are on display to the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolf Paul</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wolf Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So that if I understand Bill Lollar correctly, he would not view the local SBC congregation as &quot;the local church&quot;, or any other individual congregation in a given locality, but only the totality of the Christians in a given locality.

Thus the Christian counsellor in Huddlesfield would be part of the local church of Huddlesfield, whether he attended or were a member of First Baptist of Huddlesfield or Huddlesfield Redeemer Lutheran or Huddlesfield Community Church (for example), and sending troubled people to him would not constitute &quot;outsourcing&quot; because he is IN.

Similarly the homeless shelter operated by Christians from any congregation(s) in Huddlesfield would be a ministry of the local church in Huddlesfield rather than an example of outsourcing.

That would come very close to &quot;that they may be one as the Father and I are one&quot; ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that if I understand Bill Lollar correctly, he would not view the local SBC congregation as &#8220;the local church&#8221;, or any other individual congregation in a given locality, but only the totality of the Christians in a given locality.</p>
<p>Thus the Christian counsellor in Huddlesfield would be part of the local church of Huddlesfield, whether he attended or were a member of First Baptist of Huddlesfield or Huddlesfield Redeemer Lutheran or Huddlesfield Community Church (for example), and sending troubled people to him would not constitute &#8220;outsourcing&#8221; because he is IN.</p>
<p>Similarly the homeless shelter operated by Christians from any congregation(s) in Huddlesfield would be a ministry of the local church in Huddlesfield rather than an example of outsourcing.</p>
<p>That would come very close to &#8220;that they may be one as the Father and I are one&#8221; &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timmy,

Actually, it&#039;s one of the most narrow-minded viewpoints within fundamentalism. Sorry, brother. If the shoe fits….

As I said, I&#039;ve heard statements like yours all my life, but when I look at the biblical pattern I see only two legitimate expressions of Christ&#039;s body: (1) the entire Christian community in any locality, such as a city, or town, or village, and (2) the entire Christian community without reference to locality. The first I would be willing to call &quot;the local church&quot; and the second &quot;the church universal.&quot;

There is a biblical basis for cooperation, which is the foundation (and some would say &quot;genius&quot;) of the SBC. Paul collected money from one group of believers and shared it with those in a different region who desperately needed such support. Not exactly the same thing as the Cooperative Program, but the principle is there.

By the way, if you want to duck the issues I&#039;ve raised and accuse me of &quot;projecting&quot; on you, that&#039;s fine (it&#039;s your blog), but I did not say that you were immature and ignorant. Just wanted to clear that up. I value your contribution to the kingdom and, for the most part, I agree with much of what you write.

Blessings,
Bill]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmy,</p>
<p>Actually, it&#8217;s one of the most narrow-minded viewpoints within fundamentalism. Sorry, brother. If the shoe fits….</p>
<p>As I said, I&#8217;ve heard statements like yours all my life, but when I look at the biblical pattern I see only two legitimate expressions of Christ&#8217;s body: (1) the entire Christian community in any locality, such as a city, or town, or village, and (2) the entire Christian community without reference to locality. The first I would be willing to call &#8220;the local church&#8221; and the second &#8220;the church universal.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is a biblical basis for cooperation, which is the foundation (and some would say &#8220;genius&#8221;) of the SBC. Paul collected money from one group of believers and shared it with those in a different region who desperately needed such support. Not exactly the same thing as the Cooperative Program, but the principle is there.</p>
<p>By the way, if you want to duck the issues I&#8217;ve raised and accuse me of &#8220;projecting&#8221; on you, that&#8217;s fine (it&#8217;s your blog), but I did not say that you were immature and ignorant. Just wanted to clear that up. I value your contribution to the kingdom and, for the most part, I agree with much of what you write.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Bill</p>
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		<title>By: internetmonk.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; SBC Calvinists and the Cooperative Program: Replaying History?</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15021</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[internetmonk.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; SBC Calvinists and the Cooperative Program: Replaying History?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-15021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] at Provocations and Pantings. Because I read him regularly, I couldn&#8217;t help but be struck by the significance of a recent post, a post that I think shows that the SBC&#8217;s Calvinistic wing still doesn&#8217;t quite get why [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at Provocations and Pantings. Because I read him regularly, I couldn&#8217;t help but be struck by the significance of a recent post, a post that I think shows that the SBC&#8217;s Calvinistic wing still doesn&#8217;t quite get why [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-14994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/01/outsourcing-the-local-church/#comment-14994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill,

I did not realize that believing in the local church as the place where ministry should function was so narrow.  I guess the only question I have is whether you believe in the church universal &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; local.  It appears that you hold to the idea of a universal church (invisible) and a low view of the church local (visible).  I think that&#039;s where our differences lie.  

Your projection on me does bring me concern because you couch your argument that I am young, immature, and ignorant, and you are wise, mature, and experienced.  While I don&#039;t doubt that you are, I think you are dismissing what I am attempting to say on arbitrary grounds.  I readily confess that I have a lot to learn, especially about loving Christ&#039;s Bride, and I look forward to how God is going to teach me through men young and old to be a servant of Christ and faithful member of His body.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>I did not realize that believing in the local church as the place where ministry should function was so narrow.  I guess the only question I have is whether you believe in the church universal <i>and</i> local.  It appears that you hold to the idea of a universal church (invisible) and a low view of the church local (visible).  I think that&#8217;s where our differences lie.  </p>
<p>Your projection on me does bring me concern because you couch your argument that I am young, immature, and ignorant, and you are wise, mature, and experienced.  While I don&#8217;t doubt that you are, I think you are dismissing what I am attempting to say on arbitrary grounds.  I readily confess that I have a lot to learn, especially about loving Christ&#8217;s Bride, and I look forward to how God is going to teach me through men young and old to be a servant of Christ and faithful member of His body.</p>
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