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	<title>Comments on: The Outsourcing of the SBC</title>
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	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: Depopulating the Denomination &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-14940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Depopulating the Denomination &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-14940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this summer, I wrote about the outsourcing of the SBC. In that article I stated, You see, there are many and varied things that are attracting Southern [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this summer, I wrote about the outsourcing of the SBC. In that article I stated, You see, there are many and varied things that are attracting Southern [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A Pastor,&quot;

Yeah, I have major spelling issues as well!  I think there is a plug-in for that, and if ou use Firefox, it comes with the updates.  

Both at lunch and here on the blog, you have been an encouragement to me Ron.  You would think that such conversations and encouragement could be found in a place like Southern Seminary, but unfortunately, it isn&#039;t there. 

I don&#039;t know what the future holds, for the SBC or for my life, but I pray the Lord puts his hand on me and molds me in a way that brings Him the most glory.  That&#039;s all I want, and whatever breaking that involves, I receive it as a gift of God.  

As David said,

&quot;Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep your word.  You are good and you do good; teach me your statutes. . . . It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statutes.  The law of your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver pieces.&quot;

Psalm 119:67-68, 71-72

Thanks again for your friendship, and I pray that more trans-generational conversationscan take place to build greater bridges for the future of the SBC.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A Pastor,&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, I have major spelling issues as well!  I think there is a plug-in for that, and if ou use Firefox, it comes with the updates.  </p>
<p>Both at lunch and here on the blog, you have been an encouragement to me Ron.  You would think that such conversations and encouragement could be found in a place like Southern Seminary, but unfortunately, it isn&#8217;t there. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the future holds, for the SBC or for my life, but I pray the Lord puts his hand on me and molds me in a way that brings Him the most glory.  That&#8217;s all I want, and whatever breaking that involves, I receive it as a gift of God.  </p>
<p>As David said,</p>
<p>&#8220;Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep your word.  You are good and you do good; teach me your statutes. . . . It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statutes.  The law of your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver pieces.&#8221;</p>
<p>Psalm 119:67-68, 71-72</p>
<p>Thanks again for your friendship, and I pray that more trans-generational conversationscan take place to build greater bridges for the future of the SBC.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A Pastor</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Pastor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish there were a spell checker that corrected my bad spelling before I click on &quot;Submit Comment!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish there were a spell checker that corrected my bad spelling before I click on &#8220;Submit Comment!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A Pastor</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Pastor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last thought my brother,

Maybe the real SBC leadership is standing up the only way they can and the best way they know how.  Through something called a blog.  Only time will tell.  Leadersship is influence according to John Maxwell.

Yes... I do believe I know your heart.  I know your pain.  I&#039;ve seen your struggle.  As another guy who sat at that table once told me... &quot;God doesn&#039;t use anyone He doesn&#039;t first break.&quot;  After breaking comes remaking.

Maybe that is the course for you, me, and the SBC.  To be broken so that God can remake it.  Whatever the cost... even so come Lord Jesus.  Work in our midst!  Have your way!  Build your Kingdom!

Blessings,

Ron]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last thought my brother,</p>
<p>Maybe the real SBC leadership is standing up the only way they can and the best way they know how.  Through something called a blog.  Only time will tell.  Leadersship is influence according to John Maxwell.</p>
<p>Yes&#8230; I do believe I know your heart.  I know your pain.  I&#8217;ve seen your struggle.  As another guy who sat at that table once told me&#8230; &#8220;God doesn&#8217;t use anyone He doesn&#8217;t first break.&#8221;  After breaking comes remaking.</p>
<p>Maybe that is the course for you, me, and the SBC.  To be broken so that God can remake it.  Whatever the cost&#8230; even so come Lord Jesus.  Work in our midst!  Have your way!  Build your Kingdom!</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Ron</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A Pastor,&quot;

While at the Baptist Identity conference, I had another friend who is a church planter in the SBC ask a well-respected SBC leader about whether he should stay or leave the SBC.  The leader told him that it might be best for him to leave.  For him and for me, this was really encouraging because even those leading the SBC recognize that the Kingdom of God is not contingent upon the future of the SBC.  It could very well be an old wineskin before long.

However, I am not there yet.  And now that I know who you are, you know this to be true.  You have heard my heart, seen my tears, and become aware of my brief but difficult history with SBC churches.  I love the SBC and will hang around as long as I believe God can use me here.  At this point in my life, I have about a year left here in Louisville, and I am praying and seeking the Lord more than ever about his directives for my life once I leave.  Therefore, these recent events have all the more significance for me personally since they are playing some immediate factors for determining the Lord&#039;s direction.  Of course, for men like Dr. Connell and others, there&#039;s nothing they would want more than to see me become &quot;outsourced,&quot; but I am not prepared at this point to fulfill such a wish.  

You concluded that the goal is to honor God, and the promise is that God will honor you.  I totally agree (Timothy by the way means &quot;honoring God&quot;).  Proverbs says that before honor comes humility.  That&#039;s the goal of my life right now, to walk humbly and live faithfully before the Lord.  I have no doubt that he will confirm his call for me and establish my steps.  I just want to be used in a way that will put him on display that others can treasure him, whomever those &quot;others&quot; may be.  May God help me live up to my name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A Pastor,&#8221;</p>
<p>While at the Baptist Identity conference, I had another friend who is a church planter in the SBC ask a well-respected SBC leader about whether he should stay or leave the SBC.  The leader told him that it might be best for him to leave.  For him and for me, this was really encouraging because even those leading the SBC recognize that the Kingdom of God is not contingent upon the future of the SBC.  It could very well be an old wineskin before long.</p>
<p>However, I am not there yet.  And now that I know who you are, you know this to be true.  You have heard my heart, seen my tears, and become aware of my brief but difficult history with SBC churches.  I love the SBC and will hang around as long as I believe God can use me here.  At this point in my life, I have about a year left here in Louisville, and I am praying and seeking the Lord more than ever about his directives for my life once I leave.  Therefore, these recent events have all the more significance for me personally since they are playing some immediate factors for determining the Lord&#8217;s direction.  Of course, for men like Dr. Connell and others, there&#8217;s nothing they would want more than to see me become &#8220;outsourced,&#8221; but I am not prepared at this point to fulfill such a wish.  </p>
<p>You concluded that the goal is to honor God, and the promise is that God will honor you.  I totally agree (Timothy by the way means &#8220;honoring God&#8221;).  Proverbs says that before honor comes humility.  That&#8217;s the goal of my life right now, to walk humbly and live faithfully before the Lord.  I have no doubt that he will confirm his call for me and establish my steps.  I just want to be used in a way that will put him on display that others can treasure him, whomever those &#8220;others&#8221; may be.  May God help me live up to my name.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[D. Taylor Benton,

I&#039;m glad you will not be baptizing babies.  ;)  From what I have heard, the two leading networks/organizations receiving those being outsourced by the SBC are Sovereign Grace churches and Acts 29.  And they are also some of the most healthy and balanced models of church in the country, not to mention leading in church planting. 

Like you, were I to leave the SBC, it would be really weird because all I have known for the most part is SBC.  Granted, I have attended and examined non-SBC churches, but that is far from being &#039;one of them&#039; so to speak.  

I can totally relate to your frustration with the lack of an intelligent and articulate defense of Arminianism among those attacking Calvinism.  I hear crazy comments like, &quot;I&#039;m not Calvinist or Arminian - I&#039;m Baptist (or a biblicist).&quot;  What?!  I guess the only person who is supposed to know what that means is the person saying it.  &quot;Baptist&quot; is an ecclesiological category, not a theological framework anyway.  

But what gets me worse is to see the leaders in the SBC who are Reformed shy away and hunker down in silence.  For instance, Dr. Mohler hasn&#039;t touched any SBC issue for years.  He has mainly devoted himself to cultural/political issues and writing for Christian worldview thinking.  The moment he writes something, he sounds like Paige Patterson and the typical SBC political talking points.  

You asked whether the problems in the SBC can be fixed.  I think we need to go further back than that.  We must ask whether there are any leaders in the SBC who will devote their time and energy to fix these problems in the first place.  There are many who are willing to write articles, give speeches, and ride the SBC political circuit, but are there any who are willing to sacrifice their political clout for the betterment of the SBC?  Are they willing to loose allegiances and call out even their own friends when they are hurting the health and future of the SBC?  Are they willing to take the reform to the local churches and give themselves to see that this next generation is not going to inherit an ecclesiological wasteland?  To me, THIS is the issue.  

Will the real SBC leadership please stand up?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D. Taylor Benton,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you will not be baptizing babies.  <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   From what I have heard, the two leading networks/organizations receiving those being outsourced by the SBC are Sovereign Grace churches and Acts 29.  And they are also some of the most healthy and balanced models of church in the country, not to mention leading in church planting. </p>
<p>Like you, were I to leave the SBC, it would be really weird because all I have known for the most part is SBC.  Granted, I have attended and examined non-SBC churches, but that is far from being &#8216;one of them&#8217; so to speak.  </p>
<p>I can totally relate to your frustration with the lack of an intelligent and articulate defense of Arminianism among those attacking Calvinism.  I hear crazy comments like, &#8220;I&#8217;m not Calvinist or Arminian &#8211; I&#8217;m Baptist (or a biblicist).&#8221;  What?!  I guess the only person who is supposed to know what that means is the person saying it.  &#8220;Baptist&#8221; is an ecclesiological category, not a theological framework anyway.  </p>
<p>But what gets me worse is to see the leaders in the SBC who are Reformed shy away and hunker down in silence.  For instance, Dr. Mohler hasn&#8217;t touched any SBC issue for years.  He has mainly devoted himself to cultural/political issues and writing for Christian worldview thinking.  The moment he writes something, he sounds like Paige Patterson and the typical SBC political talking points.  </p>
<p>You asked whether the problems in the SBC can be fixed.  I think we need to go further back than that.  We must ask whether there are any leaders in the SBC who will devote their time and energy to fix these problems in the first place.  There are many who are willing to write articles, give speeches, and ride the SBC political circuit, but are there any who are willing to sacrifice their political clout for the betterment of the SBC?  Are they willing to loose allegiances and call out even their own friends when they are hurting the health and future of the SBC?  Are they willing to take the reform to the local churches and give themselves to see that this next generation is not going to inherit an ecclesiological wasteland?  To me, THIS is the issue.  </p>
<p>Will the real SBC leadership please stand up?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A Pastor,&quot;

So you caught me allusion to 1 Peter 3!  Thank you for such a hope-filled comment!  I will be thinking about your words of encouragement in the days ahead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A Pastor,&#8221;</p>
<p>So you caught me allusion to 1 Peter 3!  Thank you for such a hope-filled comment!  I will be thinking about your words of encouragement in the days ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Your Thoughts on San Antonio &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Your Thoughts on San Antonio &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] have shared a lot of my personal thoughts in the comments section of these two posts (here and here).  Now it&#8217;s your turn.  Let me (and others) know what your thoughts are on the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have shared a lot of my personal thoughts in the comments section of these two posts (here and here).  Now it&#8217;s your turn.  Let me (and others) know what your thoughts are on the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Pastor</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Pastor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Taylor,

Above all things you have one responsibility, and that is to follow God&#039;s call.  If that is outside the SBC, then you had better not stay in the SBC!  The absolutely worst tragedy would be for you, Timmy, or any of your brothers to have blind loyalty to man&#039;s just because of tradition, money, parents, or pastoral advice.

The most important thing for every person who loves Jesus is The Kingdom... not a kingdom (Little &quot;k&quot;).  I am more than willing and happy to send my cooperative program dollars to advance The Kingdom!  The same can be said for training a generation of pastor/theologians who are willing to blaze trails AND reform from within.  God&#039;s call will determine who does what.

In my last post about &quot;the reasons to hope&quot; I pushed a little on purpose.  Because I have such a high view of the call... I want every young man to &quot;make his calling&quot; sure.  Get on your face... get alone with Jesus (Mark 6:31)... get alone with The Word... and seek God.  Don&#039;t leave, quit, or strike out on a quest until you have the settled assurance that GOD (!) is leading you.  That doesn&#039;t mean you have every question answered, but it does mean you are following God&#039;s call to &quot;go to a land that I will show you.&quot;

When Araham followed God&#039;s call... he didn&#039;t know the spot he was going, but he was sure of his call.  When Philip left his house in response to The Spirit&#039;s prompting he didn&#039;t know he&#039;d encounter the eunuch... but he was sure The Spirit was leading him.  And thus the potential abundance of &quot;the promised land&quot; are to be persued.  Whether the &quot;promised land&quot; is remaining in the SBC or striking out somewhere else... the important thing is that you aren&#039;t intimidated by the giants that live there.

Now... does what I&#039;ve written here contradict what I&#039;ve written earlier?  No.  They are in sinque (sp?) with each other.  They are held in tension as one desire with God determining the outcome.

I would never dare presume upon telling any young man that his call is to stay.  Were I to do that when they weren&#039;t called to stay I would become a stumbling block to them and I&#039;m not up for that foolishness.

If I believe my theology (Reformed, The Sovereignty of God), then I must believe that God is in control of the SBC.  When God chooses to dispense with our convention (It will come to the end of it&#039;s uesfulness one day!), then that day will glorify Him!  Consider...

Churches (Congregations) have lives... just like human beings.  They are born... grow... are effective... but then eventually they die (Metropolitan Tabernacle?).  Some&#039;s effectiveness is for the span of a decade or two.  Others live for 60 years or longer.  But sooner or later, they die... OR leave a shell of what they once were for others to look at and remember &quot;the good old days.&quot;  I believe that one day the SBC will be a chapter in a history class seminarians take to learn of their past.

In conclusion... and as I leave... I say this: Honor God and He will honor you (1 Samuel 2:30b).  If that&#039;s in the SBC, GREAT!  If it&#039;s somewhere else, GREAT!  Just follow God... not men, not your fellow seminarians, not professors, not pastors.  You follow and honor God.  THEN one day you will be told... &quot;Well done good and faithful servant.&quot;

Blessings,

Ron]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taylor,</p>
<p>Above all things you have one responsibility, and that is to follow God&#8217;s call.  If that is outside the SBC, then you had better not stay in the SBC!  The absolutely worst tragedy would be for you, Timmy, or any of your brothers to have blind loyalty to man&#8217;s just because of tradition, money, parents, or pastoral advice.</p>
<p>The most important thing for every person who loves Jesus is The Kingdom&#8230; not a kingdom (Little &#8220;k&#8221;).  I am more than willing and happy to send my cooperative program dollars to advance The Kingdom!  The same can be said for training a generation of pastor/theologians who are willing to blaze trails AND reform from within.  God&#8217;s call will determine who does what.</p>
<p>In my last post about &#8220;the reasons to hope&#8221; I pushed a little on purpose.  Because I have such a high view of the call&#8230; I want every young man to &#8220;make his calling&#8221; sure.  Get on your face&#8230; get alone with Jesus (Mark 6:31)&#8230; get alone with The Word&#8230; and seek God.  Don&#8217;t leave, quit, or strike out on a quest until you have the settled assurance that GOD (!) is leading you.  That doesn&#8217;t mean you have every question answered, but it does mean you are following God&#8217;s call to &#8220;go to a land that I will show you.&#8221;</p>
<p>When Araham followed God&#8217;s call&#8230; he didn&#8217;t know the spot he was going, but he was sure of his call.  When Philip left his house in response to The Spirit&#8217;s prompting he didn&#8217;t know he&#8217;d encounter the eunuch&#8230; but he was sure The Spirit was leading him.  And thus the potential abundance of &#8220;the promised land&#8221; are to be persued.  Whether the &#8220;promised land&#8221; is remaining in the SBC or striking out somewhere else&#8230; the important thing is that you aren&#8217;t intimidated by the giants that live there.</p>
<p>Now&#8230; does what I&#8217;ve written here contradict what I&#8217;ve written earlier?  No.  They are in sinque (sp?) with each other.  They are held in tension as one desire with God determining the outcome.</p>
<p>I would never dare presume upon telling any young man that his call is to stay.  Were I to do that when they weren&#8217;t called to stay I would become a stumbling block to them and I&#8217;m not up for that foolishness.</p>
<p>If I believe my theology (Reformed, The Sovereignty of God), then I must believe that God is in control of the SBC.  When God chooses to dispense with our convention (It will come to the end of it&#8217;s uesfulness one day!), then that day will glorify Him!  Consider&#8230;</p>
<p>Churches (Congregations) have lives&#8230; just like human beings.  They are born&#8230; grow&#8230; are effective&#8230; but then eventually they die (Metropolitan Tabernacle?).  Some&#8217;s effectiveness is for the span of a decade or two.  Others live for 60 years or longer.  But sooner or later, they die&#8230; OR leave a shell of what they once were for others to look at and remember &#8220;the good old days.&#8221;  I believe that one day the SBC will be a chapter in a history class seminarians take to learn of their past.</p>
<p>In conclusion&#8230; and as I leave&#8230; I say this: Honor God and He will honor you (1 Samuel 2:30b).  If that&#8217;s in the SBC, GREAT!  If it&#8217;s somewhere else, GREAT!  Just follow God&#8230; not men, not your fellow seminarians, not professors, not pastors.  You follow and honor God.  THEN one day you will be told&#8230; &#8220;Well done good and faithful servant.&#8221;</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Ron</p>
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		<title>By: D. Taylor Benton</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. Taylor Benton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/06/08/the-outsourcing-of-the-sbc/#comment-7526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more thing!  To address what I think both Timmy and &quot;a pastor&quot; has said about honoring those in the past.  I think this traditionalistic mentality is good but we should also use these people and history and an example in that we can at least imagine what they would do in our current circumstances.  We can see throughout church history that there were those who tried to stay and fix the institution, and there were a great many who struck out on their own seeking to be more biblical.  Sometimes honoring those who have served you would be to seek the best why in which you could minister and fulfill your calling as a minister.  Whether that is in the &quot;battle” or going to the &quot;frontier&quot; to do that.  Thanks Timmy for the well needed post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing!  To address what I think both Timmy and &#8220;a pastor&#8221; has said about honoring those in the past.  I think this traditionalistic mentality is good but we should also use these people and history and an example in that we can at least imagine what they would do in our current circumstances.  We can see throughout church history that there were those who tried to stay and fix the institution, and there were a great many who struck out on their own seeking to be more biblical.  Sometimes honoring those who have served you would be to seek the best why in which you could minister and fulfill your calling as a minister.  Whether that is in the &#8220;battle” or going to the &#8220;frontier&#8221; to do that.  Thanks Timmy for the well needed post!</p>
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