Comments on: TCC X: Jeff Noblit on “Believer’s Baptism and the Miracle of Conversion” http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/ Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:58:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Derek http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-26954 Derek Sat, 08 Dec 2007 18:26:33 +0000 http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-26954 If Christ is The Baptiser, then baptism must be spiritual, and if spiritual then those baptised spiritually must be saved, and if saved, must be members of The Church, regenerated fruit bearing individuals and if fruit bearing then displaying evidence they are Christians (spiritually adopted 'non-people' now called 'Childern of the Living God') The command to be baptised is as pertinent as the command to Nicodemus to be 'born again' (born from above). Christ must do the work (baptism from above), for it to be lasting and effective. 'have I been baptised by Christ in the Holy Spirit' if I can answer positively to that question, only then can I claim to have been baptised in the true sense. The scriptures do not say "One Lord, One Faith, 'Two' baptisms" (one 'water' one 'spirtitual') but 'One' Baptism, indicating God the author of our salvation from beginning to end. We can claim nothing by our baptism, these are 'empty works' (our righteaous acts are all only as filty rags) only the merits of Christ will suffice to save us, even our baptism. If Christ is The Baptiser, then baptism must be spiritual, and if spiritual then those baptised spiritually must be saved, and if saved, must be members of The Church, regenerated fruit bearing individuals and if fruit bearing then displaying evidence they are Christians (spiritually adopted ‘non-people’ now called ‘Childern of the Living God’) The command to be baptised is as pertinent as the command to Nicodemus to be ‘born again’ (born from above). Christ must do the work (baptism from above), for it to be lasting and effective. ‘have I been baptised by Christ in the Holy Spirit’ if I can answer positively to that question, only then can I claim to have been baptised in the true sense. The scriptures do not say “One Lord, One Faith, ‘Two’ baptisms” (one ‘water’ one ’spirtitual’) but ‘One’ Baptism, indicating God the author of our salvation from beginning to end. We can claim nothing by our baptism, these are ‘empty works’ (our righteaous acts are all only as filty rags) only the merits of Christ will suffice to save us, even our baptism.

]]> By: Timmy Brister http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-5645 Timmy Brister Thu, 10 May 2007 02:44:39 +0000 http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-5645 Bill, Point six of the importance of baptism says, <i>"Baptism is necessary for salvation (from the power of sin in daily life or sanctification)."</i> In my original draft which got erased, I had a full paragraph which explained what Noblit was speaking about. I will try to elaborate on what I believe he was saying. There is no justifcation without sanctification, which is marked by a life of obedience. A foundational mark of obedience is the public profession of faith through the ordinance of believer's baptism. Working out one's salvation with fear and trembling expounds on the idea of a life marked by continual repentance and faith in an obedient lifestyle. Such a lifestyle signifies that one has indeed died and has been buried with Christ and raised to newness of life. So I understand him to say that baptism is necessary for salvation in the sense that salvation does not just include justification, but also sanctification, and ultimately glorification. We have been saved (justification), are being saved (sanctification), and will be saved (glorification), and baptized is necessary for salvation because justification cannot be without sanctification. The former will inevitably lead to the latter, thereby necessitating the ordinance of baptism. He is not saying that baptism is salvifically efficacious or a means of grace; rather, I understand him to say that baptism is a necessary response of one who has been truly identified in union with Christ (to be like him in his death and his resurrection - Rom. 6). The purpose of pointing out the importance of baptism was not to elevate it to a work in addition to faith and repentance whereby one must do in order to be saved; rather, he was making the ponit that churches today have reduced baptism to a point where the theological significance and meaning is almost nonexistent in churches today. That's how I understand it. I might be wrong in my analysis or interpretation of that part, so I will check in on that. Bill,

Point six of the importance of baptism says, “Baptism is necessary for salvation (from the power of sin in daily life or sanctification).” In my original draft which got erased, I had a full paragraph which explained what Noblit was speaking about. I will try to elaborate on what I believe he was saying.

There is no justifcation without sanctification, which is marked by a life of obedience. A foundational mark of obedience is the public profession of faith through the ordinance of believer’s baptism. Working out one’s salvation with fear and trembling expounds on the idea of a life marked by continual repentance and faith in an obedient lifestyle. Such a lifestyle signifies that one has indeed died and has been buried with Christ and raised to newness of life.

So I understand him to say that baptism is necessary for salvation in the sense that salvation does not just include justification, but also sanctification, and ultimately glorification. We have been saved (justification), are being saved (sanctification), and will be saved (glorification), and baptized is necessary for salvation because justification cannot be without sanctification. The former will inevitably lead to the latter, thereby necessitating the ordinance of baptism.

He is not saying that baptism is salvifically efficacious or a means of grace; rather, I understand him to say that baptism is a necessary response of one who has been truly identified in union with Christ (to be like him in his death and his resurrection - Rom. 6).

The purpose of pointing out the importance of baptism was not to elevate it to a work in addition to faith and repentance whereby one must do in order to be saved; rather, he was making the ponit that churches today have reduced baptism to a point where the theological significance and meaning is almost nonexistent in churches today.

That’s how I understand it. I might be wrong in my analysis or interpretation of that part, so I will check in on that.

]]> By: Bill Lollar http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-5633 Bill Lollar Wed, 09 May 2007 22:03:13 +0000 http://timmybrister.com/2007/05/05/tcc-x-jeff-noblit-on-believers-baptism-and-the-miracle-of-conversion/#comment-5633 Hi, Timmy. Point #6 under "The Importance of Baptism" says, "Baptism is necessary for salvation..." Is this a typo? I posted a link from my blog and someone has asked me what Bro. Noblit means by this statement or how this is connected to Philippians 2:12? Can you shed any light on this? Hi, Timmy. Point #6 under “The Importance of Baptism” says, “Baptism is necessary for salvation…” Is this a typo? I posted a link from my blog and someone has asked me what Bro. Noblit means by this statement or how this is connected to Philippians 2:12? Can you shed any light on this?

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