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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;In but not of&#8221; the Virtual World?: Christians, Community, and Kaneva</title>
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	<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/</link>
	<description>Trusting God :: Treasuring Christ :: Triumphing the Gospel</description>
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		<title>By: Catrise</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-7983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Catrise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-7983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to respectfully disagree (with love!).

While I appreciate your views (they make sense--you can never and should never try to replace live interaction, nor the assembling of ourselves together physically on a regular basis--that&#039;s based on scripture), I will not attempt to limit God&#039;s influence in any area of our lives, even virtual.  Jesus is Lord of all, even the internet.  God is not limited by time, nor space--not even cyberspace.

Interestingly, I have recently been praying over this as I just discovered the popularity of virtual worlds and pondered whether and how I could be a vessel of God in them.  I was &quot;seeking His face&quot; on the matter, as it were, and doing research when I found this thread (also not a coincidence, I think I was supposed to voice this here).  As has been commented earlier, many people will never be reached any other way but &quot;virtually&quot;, if you will.  Moreover, I believe in proclaiming the Word with every available &quot;voice&quot;, including a virtual one.  Behind every virtual avatar is a live human whom God loves, whom Jesus died for on the Cross.

I have decided to &quot;lean not unto [my] own understanding&quot;, God often works in ways mysterious to us and which have us marvelling, but He knows what He is doing.  Just the notion that we are even discussing this as a possibility is His doing, I believe.  Exploring what is possible, while all the time being led by the Holy Spirit, allows God to move as He has longed to for many years.  I say allow Him to work through you in every way He wants to work.

Respectfully Submitted,

Cat]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to respectfully disagree (with love!).</p>
<p>While I appreciate your views (they make sense&#8211;you can never and should never try to replace live interaction, nor the assembling of ourselves together physically on a regular basis&#8211;that&#8217;s based on scripture), I will not attempt to limit God&#8217;s influence in any area of our lives, even virtual.  Jesus is Lord of all, even the internet.  God is not limited by time, nor space&#8211;not even cyberspace.</p>
<p>Interestingly, I have recently been praying over this as I just discovered the popularity of virtual worlds and pondered whether and how I could be a vessel of God in them.  I was &#8220;seeking His face&#8221; on the matter, as it were, and doing research when I found this thread (also not a coincidence, I think I was supposed to voice this here).  As has been commented earlier, many people will never be reached any other way but &#8220;virtually&#8221;, if you will.  Moreover, I believe in proclaiming the Word with every available &#8220;voice&#8221;, including a virtual one.  Behind every virtual avatar is a live human whom God loves, whom Jesus died for on the Cross.</p>
<p>I have decided to &#8220;lean not unto [my] own understanding&#8221;, God often works in ways mysterious to us and which have us marvelling, but He knows what He is doing.  Just the notion that we are even discussing this as a possibility is His doing, I believe.  Exploring what is possible, while all the time being led by the Holy Spirit, allows God to move as He has longed to for many years.  I say allow Him to work through you in every way He wants to work.</p>
<p>Respectfully Submitted,</p>
<p>Cat</p>
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		<title>By: CandyR</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CandyR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would assume it to be true that most of these people who have created an identity for themselves in a virtual world must also have a day job.  By this I mean, people don&#039;t sit in front of their home computer ALL day entranced in their virtual world.  These people are among us everyday.  Now, granted more and more businesses can be run from your home, I would tend to believe that the typical person with a code identity on-line is someone we encounter more often than we think.  

In an internship I had at a cooperate company one summer, I met lots of these guys.  During the day, they were such and such engineer or computer scientist.  But based on conversations with a few I grew acquainted with, I soon found out that their true joy in life was the next round of some RPG or episode of a classic sci fi series that was waiting on them at home.  I was even shocked to witness a man who cashed in several days of his vacation to go to a national gaming convention.  

My point in sharing this is not to belittle these grown men whose hobbies were quite a bit different than mine, but that I believe my best opportunity to impact them with the gospel was everyday while at work and not through a virtual world.   It was here that I could interact in a real, physical context and they could see the &quot;light&quot; of my work ethic and hear words from my own mouth that were hopefully seasoned with &quot;salt&quot;.  I would like to think that if I could have worked there longer, I could have grown into a trusting friendship that would have been an adequate &quot;context&quot; for evangelistic practices.  

For what its worth, at least in the meantime until a humbly orthodox means of evangelizing and discipling the virtual world comes around, I believe the best way to reach these people with the life changing message of Christ is to walk around to the next cubical or have lunch in the cafeteria where you and these people work.  We should break out of our own virtual masks and jump into awkward conversations about the hidden powers recently discovered in new video game release.  Once I did, I found that I actually had more in common with those guys than I thought, despite the fact that it seemed we spoke different languages at times.  

In a broader context, if the church would become intentional about relationships with REAL people they see everyday, we might just find a way to penetrate the communities that gather after working hours.  And as for the younger generation Timmy alluded to, they are no further than the classroom where our younger church generation has direct physical access.  Perhaps after these unidentifiable persons become known, befriended and loved by a Christian who genuinely cares about their spiritual welfare, they will desire more of that fellowship and attend a local church.  

(P.S. I am new to the blogosphere and would welcome any comments/critiques  to my posting - thanks for the avenue to share)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would assume it to be true that most of these people who have created an identity for themselves in a virtual world must also have a day job.  By this I mean, people don&#8217;t sit in front of their home computer ALL day entranced in their virtual world.  These people are among us everyday.  Now, granted more and more businesses can be run from your home, I would tend to believe that the typical person with a code identity on-line is someone we encounter more often than we think.  </p>
<p>In an internship I had at a cooperate company one summer, I met lots of these guys.  During the day, they were such and such engineer or computer scientist.  But based on conversations with a few I grew acquainted with, I soon found out that their true joy in life was the next round of some RPG or episode of a classic sci fi series that was waiting on them at home.  I was even shocked to witness a man who cashed in several days of his vacation to go to a national gaming convention.  </p>
<p>My point in sharing this is not to belittle these grown men whose hobbies were quite a bit different than mine, but that I believe my best opportunity to impact them with the gospel was everyday while at work and not through a virtual world.   It was here that I could interact in a real, physical context and they could see the &#8220;light&#8221; of my work ethic and hear words from my own mouth that were hopefully seasoned with &#8220;salt&#8221;.  I would like to think that if I could have worked there longer, I could have grown into a trusting friendship that would have been an adequate &#8220;context&#8221; for evangelistic practices.  </p>
<p>For what its worth, at least in the meantime until a humbly orthodox means of evangelizing and discipling the virtual world comes around, I believe the best way to reach these people with the life changing message of Christ is to walk around to the next cubical or have lunch in the cafeteria where you and these people work.  We should break out of our own virtual masks and jump into awkward conversations about the hidden powers recently discovered in new video game release.  Once I did, I found that I actually had more in common with those guys than I thought, despite the fact that it seemed we spoke different languages at times.  </p>
<p>In a broader context, if the church would become intentional about relationships with REAL people they see everyday, we might just find a way to penetrate the communities that gather after working hours.  And as for the younger generation Timmy alluded to, they are no further than the classroom where our younger church generation has direct physical access.  Perhaps after these unidentifiable persons become known, befriended and loved by a Christian who genuinely cares about their spiritual welfare, they will desire more of that fellowship and attend a local church.  </p>
<p>(P.S. I am new to the blogosphere and would welcome any comments/critiques  to my posting &#8211; thanks for the avenue to share)</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy Brister</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timmy Brister]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CandyR,

I agree with your statements.  So much of the world today is looking for conversation, whether through discussion boards, MySpace, Facebook, blogs, etc. through the Internet which is the most impersonal medium available and thereby does not require a person to be authentic or transparent.  

Yet from all the stats, reports, and reality checks, this digital generation who is technically savy but communally defunct is by and large going unreached by the church.  How are we going to reach these young people?  Is there a way that we can contextualize the gospel to reach them in a way that would help overcome the impasse which looms so large and indicts our evangelistic practices?  

The Internet churches, virtual worlds, and Christian discussion forums are unacceptable for biblical community, yet I fear for some, that is all they have.  These cannot replace the local church.  Yet, how will those who have a desire to reach such people build a bridge from the virtual world to the local church?  That seems to me to be a daunting task.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CandyR,</p>
<p>I agree with your statements.  So much of the world today is looking for conversation, whether through discussion boards, MySpace, Facebook, blogs, etc. through the Internet which is the most impersonal medium available and thereby does not require a person to be authentic or transparent.  </p>
<p>Yet from all the stats, reports, and reality checks, this digital generation who is technically savy but communally defunct is by and large going unreached by the church.  How are we going to reach these young people?  Is there a way that we can contextualize the gospel to reach them in a way that would help overcome the impasse which looms so large and indicts our evangelistic practices?  </p>
<p>The Internet churches, virtual worlds, and Christian discussion forums are unacceptable for biblical community, yet I fear for some, that is all they have.  These cannot replace the local church.  Yet, how will those who have a desire to reach such people build a bridge from the virtual world to the local church?  That seems to me to be a daunting task.</p>
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		<title>By: CandyR</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CandyR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for enticing some interesting thoughts.  Initially, I find hesitation with doing &quot;missions&quot; in the virtual world simply for the fact that the fullness of Christian community could not be experienced through a computer screen.  I don&#039;t doubt that the gospel could be clearly communicated via cyberspace in such a way that could result in faith (Rom. 10:17), but then I wonder how the process of growing as a disciple could be accomplished outside a physical, local body of believers.  Now I am not anything of a gamer, much less a virtual world citizen, so I wonder if authentic community could really be experienced by people who are potentially thousands of miles apart.  Can this exist when the only &quot;contact&quot; with another believer is through a digitally created image?  As you have pointed out here Timmy, there are aspects of the &quot;old era&quot; community that couldn&#039;t be accomplished in this new virtual age.  I can&#039;t seem to put my finger on what exactly makes gathering together with believers such a refreshing haven for me, but I am pretty certain I would not be able to experience the same community in a virtual world.  I would be interested to hear the perspective from any virtual world citizens out there.

Hebrews 10:25]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for enticing some interesting thoughts.  Initially, I find hesitation with doing &#8220;missions&#8221; in the virtual world simply for the fact that the fullness of Christian community could not be experienced through a computer screen.  I don&#8217;t doubt that the gospel could be clearly communicated via cyberspace in such a way that could result in faith (Rom. 10:17), but then I wonder how the process of growing as a disciple could be accomplished outside a physical, local body of believers.  Now I am not anything of a gamer, much less a virtual world citizen, so I wonder if authentic community could really be experienced by people who are potentially thousands of miles apart.  Can this exist when the only &#8220;contact&#8221; with another believer is through a digitally created image?  As you have pointed out here Timmy, there are aspects of the &#8220;old era&#8221; community that couldn&#8217;t be accomplished in this new virtual age.  I can&#8217;t seem to put my finger on what exactly makes gathering together with believers such a refreshing haven for me, but I am pretty certain I would not be able to experience the same community in a virtual world.  I would be interested to hear the perspective from any virtual world citizens out there.</p>
<p>Hebrews 10:25</p>
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		<title>By: alycelee</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[alycelee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amazing isn&#039;t it? Could it be a mission field. Yes. 
I&#039;m continually amazed at where God opens opportunities for me, usually where I least expect it. 
In fact, someone posted to a friends blog once, he was an aethist and I recognized it immediately. I was able to talk to him for a few minutes.

I do think, in the case of this virtual world, we need to remember WHERE we are (in this case ARE NOT)
Agape and happy hunting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing isn&#8217;t it? Could it be a mission field. Yes.<br />
I&#8217;m continually amazed at where God opens opportunities for me, usually where I least expect it.<br />
In fact, someone posted to a friends blog once, he was an aethist and I recognized it immediately. I was able to talk to him for a few minutes.</p>
<p>I do think, in the case of this virtual world, we need to remember WHERE we are (in this case ARE NOT)<br />
Agape and happy hunting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Shaver</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Shaver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I too had been thinking about these new virtual communities as  possible &quot;mission fields&quot;.  

What we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.  These virtual communities will continue to grow as technology develops and expands.  

Perhaps this would be a new way for some of the techies in our congregations to penetrate the world with the Gospel.  The possibilities are limited only by our imagination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too had been thinking about these new virtual communities as  possible &#8220;mission fields&#8221;.  </p>
<p>What we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.  These virtual communities will continue to grow as technology develops and expands.  </p>
<p>Perhaps this would be a new way for some of the techies in our congregations to penetrate the world with the Gospel.  The possibilities are limited only by our imagination.</p>
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		<title>By: Brittney</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brittney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I totally agree!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree!</p>
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		<title>By: wifey singer</title>
		<link>http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wifey singer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timmybrister.com/2007/02/28/in-but-not-of-the-virtual-world-christians-community-and-kaneva/#comment-2888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[amen! 
&quot;...there is possibly the opportunity to reach out to people with the real, life-transforming message of Jesus Christ.&quot;
thanks! i found your blog in such a &quot;lucky&quot; way! providence!! love His ways!!
press on!!!!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amen!<br />
&#8220;&#8230;there is possibly the opportunity to reach out to people with the real, life-transforming message of Jesus Christ.&#8221;<br />
thanks! i found your blog in such a &#8220;lucky&#8221; way! providence!! love His ways!!<br />
press on!!!!!!!</p>
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